batter thinking 3rd ball was ball 4

[greg99]

I though this was discussed on here but i sure can't find the thread. Last weekend with bases loaded the batter headed to 1st on ball 3. All the runners advanced as well. After the BU called the batter back he put all the other girls back. I don't think is correct. it should be 2nd and 3rd with a run scored, batter has 3 balls and is still at bat.

thanks.

 

[Comp]

If the umpire mistakenly indicated ball 4, then yes, the runners should all be returned to the bases they occupied prior to the pitch. But, if the batter and runners all just started advancing on their own, the runners all essentially stole a base, score the run, put the batter back at bat.

 

[greg99]

Ok - this is gregs wife - and i am going to clarify the situation - since his explanation was incorrect, since he wasn't there to see it happen.

Bases loaded, batter goes to first on ball 3, thinking it's ball 4. Catcher returns the ball to the pitcher. Runners advance. BU only calls the batter back to the box stating ball 4, but ON THEIR OWN, runner returns from the dugout to 3rd, and other runners return to their previous bases.

The coach of the other team after everyone has returned to their previous spots, goes to the plate to say that the run should score, as they all advanced at their own risk. Since the players all returned to their previous bag positions, isn't there an issue there? Sanction is USSSA.

 

[Comp]

What age group we talking here? Not familiar with all the ins and outs of the USSSA rules, but they are generally fairly close to ASA. Based on your description, you have a run that scored, and you have a lookback violation on the first runner that stepped off a bag with the ball in the circle. Once a runner has legally scored, they cannot "unscore" themselves by returning to 3rd base. The other runners had all legally advanced, and when the first one stepped off a base with the pitcher having the ball, the ball became dead and that runner was out.

 

[greg99]

Girls are 12U. So - What it sounds like you are saying is that the run scores, 2 outs in the books for the other 2 runners - and since there was already 2 outs recorded - the inning would then be over. (I know i didn't say that there were 2 outs already - didn't think it would make a difference). Out of the inning one run scores.

Thanks for the info.... gregswife

 

[Comp]

You only get 1 out on a lookback violation, even if 2 runners leave the base. Umpires have to choose which one left first, that runner is out.

 

[rachelsdad]

The UIC in our league instructed us to call RB out and reset all runners since he called this a play to deceive the defense. (Someone must have done it to the team he coached)

 

[T Red]

When did the runners leave the bases, before the pitcher had the ball in the circle or after? It's possible there was not a LBR violation.

 

[BretMan]

The UIC in our league instructed us to call RB out and reset all runners since he called this a play to deceive the defense. (Someone must have done it to the team he coached)

Sounds like the UIC of your league just made up a new ruling that isn't supported by any existing rule or interpretation.

I know that USSSA closely mirrors NFHS/high school in a lot of it's rules. I don't know if USSSA subscribes to the same high school Case Plays. There is a high school Case Play where if the umpire judges this (batter running on ball three) to be an intentional or coached tactic to deceive the defense, then a warning could be issued and subsequent offenders ejected (but not called out). High school is unique in this ruling and I'm not aware of any other sanctioning body with a similar ruling.

If it's not an intentional act, but just an honest mistake by the batter, then the advance of the runners stands. The defense is responsible for knowing the count and reacting accordingly.

I would challenge your UIC to back up his opinion with some documented interpretation that the play should be ruled as an out. If he's calling it interference because the defense was "confused", I would remind him that to be interference an actual play would need to be interfered with. What play did this batter prevent the defense from making? They were free to play upon any of teh advancing runners and the batter didn't prevent that.