Always By The Book?

[Momo'sDad]

I enjoyed the story, even though I myself have no interest in men's fastpitch. It seems unusual that a no-pitch walk wouldn't be allowed in adult rec, but if that's the rule, so be it.

While I understand where you are coming from, I side with your partner on this. It's unfortunate that police sometimes have to be involved in management of team sports (fans), but hopefully a community would feel some shame after an incident and self-police better in the future.

 

[testandor]

It's unfortunate that police sometimes have to be involved in management of team sports (fans)

Thanks for the response. I have no interest in it either. Just to be clear, the police weren't called in. They were already there. They were the team at bat. The Guardian Civic League is a group within the Philadelphia Police Department.

 

[Comp]

Where does any rule require any intent on the players part in order to be a violation? No, the pitcher may not have realized that he was violating a rule but what difference does that make? Runners don't always knowingly miss a base, or a catcher ay not know the rule that they cannot use their helmet to retrieve a ball, it is still a violation that the umpire must rule on. And no, I don't believe in the let it go until the coach brings it to your attention philosophy. Doing so simply makes you look like you don't know the rules, are not being impartial or got talked into making a call by the other team.

 

[marriard]

And no, I don't believe in the let it go until the coach brings it to your attention philosophy. Doing so simply makes you look like you don't know the rules, are not being impartial or got talked into making a call by the other team.

This is where the best experienced officials in all sports excel - they recognize and game manage the situation within and using the rules to best handle the situation. It isn't game management VERSUS rule enforcement it is game management AND rules enforcement.

But when you are inexperienced - or in some case have no feeling for a situation - or just have no interest in learning and developing - I have seen umpires in all sports put themselves in terrible situations that could have been avoided because unfortunately it is something you have to learn. Nuances and 'unwritten rules' and 'case plays' and etc, etc...

I see it all the time - the official who chases the 'easy' way out (i.e. make the call the crowd wants or acts in a way that 'makes friends') because that often snowballs out or control. But you also can't go the other way and be super 100% officious ALL the time because then you end up in the 'arrogant and unaproachable' camp and one mistake and everyone is already wanting to jump on you and that goes poorly as well. There is a balance that is not easy to learn and you often are going up and down the scale leaning one way or another depending on the game.

It is interesting to see that @testandor talks about how they look back at how they would NOW handle the situation versus what happened. That is good.

I was very lucky to have a very good mentor when I started out as a young official in basketball (this is back when I was 12 or 13 years old so just after the discovery of electricity) who taught me a huge amount which has helped me immensely in all the sports I have officiated in. I umpired with him a lot and he watched and assessed me often when he wasn't my partner. And for softball I had a very good mentor who worked with me to get me up to speed (and of course here).

 

[testandor]

COMP

Where does any rule require any intent on the players part in order to be a violation? No, the pitcher may not have realized that he was violating a rule but what difference does that make?

There is no such rule. Never said there was.

And whether you know of a violation of a rule or don't, it makes no difference at all. But since CHSUmp97 stated that the pitcher purposely violated a rule, I just corrected him. Never said it made a difference.

And no, I don't believe in the let it go until the coach brings it to your attention philosophy.

It's not a philosophy. That would be a systematic way you believe things should be done. I was asked twice about two different scenarios of how that could have ended, and neither one would have been OK with me. So, I offered what I thought would have been a possible way to handle it that wouldn't have harmed either team. The only thing I've read in response is that it would have made me look like I didn't know the rules. Quite frankly, if that's the only negative that happens in a situation where I think I've made a decision that is in the best interest of the game, then I'm OK with that. The game's not about me.

 

[testandor]

marriard

But you also can't go the other way and be super 100% officious ALL the time because then you end up in the 'arrogant and unaproachable' camp

The purpose of my overly long post was to present a unique game ending play and see what discussion would ensue. But it was also about a certain type of umpire that I've seen from the coach's side and worked with as an umpire. I spent a lot of time and used an awful lot of words to try to describe what you nailed in just that first half of one sentence. Thank you.

 

[The Man In Blue]

There are rules that require intent for violation. They vary by code (or even softball vs. baseball), but they are there.

I’ll also add how this story and testandor’s thoughts highlight one of my issues with organizations like USA Softball. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: a competitive youth sport shouldn’t be using the same rulebook as a recreational adult league (nor should a recreational youth league use the same book as a competitive adult league). Yes, there are some variations written in, but the philosophy of the game is very different depending on the purpose of the game.

 

[Momo'sDad]

.....I offered what I thought would have been a possible way to handle it that wouldn't have harmed either team. The only thing I've read in response is that it would have made me look like I didn't know the rules. Quite frankly, if that's the only negative that happens in a situation where I think I've made a decision that is in the best interest of the game, then I'm OK with that. The game's not about me.

Your desire to orchestrate possible outcomes is a perfect example of making the game about you. As a professional umpire, the best interest of the game is served by officiating the game within the existing rules you've been assigned.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Philosophically I may not completely disagree with you MD, but ...

Your desire to orchestrate possible outcomes is a perfect example of making the game about you. As a professional umpire, the best interest of the game is served by officiating the game within the existing rules you've been assigned.

Boom.

Gone.

 

[testandor]

... but it is a fool’s errand.

you are always taking a risk with that.

Yes... I know that's true.

Warnings on illegal pitches? Just had this discussion in the game we just wrapped up. We are 3-4 weeks into the middle school season...

As I've stated, I have a high regard for the status of school ball, and believe it should always be called by the book.