19 Sluggers defective?

[radness]

Precisely. I've tossed bats and then allowed a team to use them the next game. Why? It rattled the first game. It didn't rattle the second game. When I think I hear a rattle, I do a couple of things. First, I do "turn it over". I won't tamp it on the ground (it's not mine, so I'm not smacking it on the ground), but I will turn it end over end. If it doesn't rattle after that, it's good. Second, I have my partner check it. If she or he says "I doesn't hear it", I will listen again. Sometimes it passes, sometimes it doesn't.



Actually, in my experience it is pretty rare for somebody to get mad. I would say 75% of the time I'm not the first one, and it isn't the first time they have heard it. Then again, I will grab the player and the coach and explain the issue so they both know and understand. I'll even gladly talk to the parent to explain (when it is appropriate -- not going to hold up the game for that one).




You can't see a rattle. The inspection should be physical. Some umpires will actually use a bat ring to check for dents (yes, there is a ring made for checking bats). I lightly run my hand over it for that part, turning it and looking for any cracks in the process.



This, this, this! It ABSOLUTELY is the coach's responsibility. In fact, NFHS has made that a point of emphasis.

your explanation of how you as an umpire assess bats had some basic common sense that apply's to the rule book.

However the last statement of it is ABSOLUTELY the COACHES RESPONSIBILTY even tho h.s.,
just threw your umpire reasonings
out the door.

What can be gleaned from your post...
make sure bat doesnt rattle befor handing to the umpire. Cuz the coach will just want you to hit well rattle or not!

 

[CoreSoftball20]

That said, as a layperson ... resin and glue are used to hold things together. If the resin/glue has become dried or brittle to the point it is breaking loose inside ... that doesn't sound like "not a safety issue" to me.

Glue doesnt hold anything inside the bat together. Not like the connection is glued together or glue holds the inner barrel together or discs together...haha. Bats go thru a violent reaction every time its hit. Glue
isnt used to hold it together And its actually not glue, its epoxy because it also needs to flex and NOT
dry out and lose its bond. But when epoxy is applied inside the end of the bat, and then the endcap is plugged in, many times there is a little more epoxy than needed and it get pushed inside and its a little bit gobbed on top of the endcap inside. So its not holding anything and not bonding anything...so it will just fall off and pebble around. People have to realize, glue doesnt hold anything vital inside a bat together. It CANT physically do it.
Now resin...that is put on the composite layers to make the composite lasts longer.
Even resin sand inside a bat doesnt mean its gonna fly apart. It wont do anything.
It means that the bat may not last as long before it sharktooths. But heck , i have had sand inside a bat
for years.
Again, that why I like compression...it passes or doesnt. Umps should not be put in any position to
have to decide whether a bat is legal or not. Too many parts inside a bat flexing with each violent
smash with a ball that can create a noise/rattle/clack/click/sand/pebble...hahaha.

I know we agree to disgree at times about bats MIB...but I do agree that rules are rules. if you tell an
ump that any rattle or whatever, then the bat should be removed, then thats your job. Just a shame
the rule is written that way and parents pay the price for it.

 

[CoreSoftball20]

And yes, every 2019 LS is defective
Figured I would add to the topic post with one post







Yes, that was a joke, LS fans, dont get all bent out of shape...haha

 

[Westwind]

I’m that guy that can’t glue or epoxy ANYTHING without getting it everywhere so I can picture a little of it being out of place pretty easily.

Being at the end of my softball journey and seeing older players who can hit balls HARD, the violence of that impact with the bat makes me wonder how bats stay together as good as they do. I thought I had bought my last bat but I need to reach out to Core and see if he can set me up one last time.

 

[The Man In Blue]

your explanation of how you as an umpire assess bats had some basic common sense that apply's to the rule book.

However the last statement of it is ABSOLUTELY the COACHES RESPONSIBILTY even tho h.s.,
just threw your umpire reasonings
out the door.

What can be gleaned from your post...
make sure bat doesnt rattle befor handing to the umpire. Cuz the coach will just want you to hit well rattle or not!

I'm not sure I understand how equipment being the coach's responsibility is counter to my process. NFHS does not require us to check equipment, so it is a point of emphasis with them. USA and USSSA still require us to do a pre-game check. It is still the coach's responsibility, we just are expected to enforce it. The penalty for using an illegal bat is the player and coach are ejected. I've said if you want to get the coaches to start being responsible, let me eject them when I find something in the pre-game inspection.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Glue doesnt hold anything inside the bat together. Not like the connection is glued together or glue holds the inner barrel together or discs together...haha. Bats go thru a violent reaction every time its hit. Glue
isnt used to hold it together And its actually not glue, its epoxy because it also needs to flex and NOT
dry out and lose its bond. But when epoxy is applied inside the end of the bat, and then the endcap is plugged in, many times there is a little more epoxy than needed and it get pushed inside and its a little bit gobbed on top of the endcap inside. So its not holding anything and not bonding anything...so it will just fall off and pebble around. People have to realize, glue doesnt hold anything vital inside a bat together. It CANT physically do it.
Now resin...that is put on the composite layers to make the composite lasts longer.
Even resin sand inside a bat doesnt mean its gonna fly apart. It wont do anything.
It means that the bat may not last as long before it sharktooths. But heck , i have had sand inside a bat
for years.
Again, that why I like compression...it passes or doesnt. Umps should not be put in any position to
have to decide whether a bat is legal or not. Too many parts inside a bat flexing with each violent
smash with a ball that can create a noise/rattle/clack/click/sand/pebble...hahaha.

I know we agree to disgree at times about bats MIB...but I do agree that rules are rules. if you tell an
ump that any rattle or whatever, then the bat should be removed, then thats your job. Just a shame
the rule is written that way and parents pay the price for it.

I don't think we actually disagree Core! We just have fun!

That makes total sense to me ... unfortunately it doesn't to somebody who wrote the rule book. Until I am provided any actual training or USA Softball pays for me to earn my Master's Degree in Bat Engineering ... I am not smart enough beyond identifying a rattle (which occasionally comes from my head, but there is no rule on that).

I'm surprised nobody has gotten their tinfoil hat out yet and indicated the bat manufacturers do this on purpose to promote more sales.

 

[The Man In Blue]

well a car engine has moving parts...................... and about 1,000 of them versus a bat with zero moving parts and only 2 or 3 pieces so not following your analogy. A bat is such a simple item. I don't understand why a $400 piece of equipment can become illegal just because a little rattle inside of it. Seems like a rule that needs to be revisited.

As for the joints in my body making odd noises, that is a normal occurrence for me but apparently not for you. I'm envious. What's your secret? lol.....

I started to put that disclaimer in there ...

Oh no, I rattle and creak something fierce. Right now I have trigger thumb ... trigger thumb! It sucks! Human beings are spoiled with having opposable thumbs!

 

[radness]

I'm not sure I understand how equipment being the coach's responsibility is counter to my process. NFHS does not require us to check equipment, so it is a point of emphasis with them. USA and USSSA still require us to do a pre-game check. It is still the coach's responsibility, we just are expected to enforce it. The penalty for using an illegal bat is the player and coach are ejected. I've said if you want to get the coaches to start being responsible, let me eject them when I find something in the pre-game inspection.

Hahaaa seriously why am i not surprised to the analytical rule book response...your post detailing how you the ump toss bats and missing the point how funny it is to make a coach responsible but the umpire actually enforces rules...LOL...NOW its funnier cuz you talk of ejecting people.
GO BIG BLUE .
Rattle giggle rattle giggle
You're outta here
Thanks for officiating!!!

 

[The Man In Blue]

(I know this conversation is in good spirits!)

Not at all at odds with one another. It is your responsibility not to speed on a public roadway. It is the police officer's responsibility for citing you when you do.

The coach is responsible for the equipment. If he/she doesn't do the job, the umpire has to step in. No different than any other rule. The umpire is not responsible for the equipment -- the umpire is responsible for applying the rules.

I don't want to toss people for illegal equipment ... I'm saying it will get their attention and make them start acting more responsibly. Heck, let's send the parent packing too! I can guarantee that after two times (should be one, but let's be honest) the wrong color Ghost won't be coming into the dugout, the catcher's mask will have all its screws, and the batting helmets will all have tight screws and all of their foam padding.

 

[texasheat]

I don't want to toss people for illegal equipment ... I'm saying it will get their attention and make them start acting more responsibly. Heck, let's send the parent packing too! I can guarantee that after two times (should be one, but let's be honest) the wrong color Ghost won't be coming into the dugout, the catcher's mask will have all its screws, and the batting helmets will all have tight screws and all of their foam padding.

I would bet that 95% of the parents/coaches out there have no idea that a missing screw on a catcher's mask or loose screw on a helmet is grounds for ejection. Seems like giving the kid/coach a chance to fix those issues should be in order before an ejection? Just like a police officer has discretion in giving citation, an umpire has discretion on ejections. Tossing a kid and coach for a loose screw on a helmet is crazy badge heavy behavior.