13 year old Looking for advice on swing

[Wellphyt]

Interesting observation.

I keep looking for her trigger ... don't see it. Virtually no lower body load. Front foot stays flat on the ground. Upper body load leads and I wonder if she'd uni-load in the box. Don't see much in terms of separation. To me this resembles a gated swing and I question if it will work well against good pitching. I'm in the minority here.

Any game swings?

FFS, I believe your observations are correct. This girl has a very typical fastpitch gate type swing. This is the most commonly taught swing in my area. Probably 7 out of 10 girls on our 14U team swing like this. This swing really begins to break down against good pitching. It's ok against average pitching. We have one girl in particular on our team who has been taught this swing for 3 years. She is a very dependable contact hitter against average pitching that will occasionally get her pitch and get a nice hit. Against better pitching she really struggles getting it out of the infield, and hits most balls to the second base girl. If the pitcher has decent control, it is a very easy swing for the pitcher to counteract. Throwing the ball on the inside corner above the waist or low middle-half out, will usually get the job done for the pitcher. Middle to outside high, seem to be the sweet spot for this particular girl.

IMO, instructors that teach this type swing are mired in the past and are not fully up to speed on the transformation that is happening in fastpitch hitting today. One specific example is the minimal to almost non-existent negative move. Minimal in the upper body, non-existent in the lower body. The reason hitters in fastpitch aren't taught to perform a negative move is because their instructors don't believe there is time. So what you get is a hitter that basically just stands there with their hands held at ear level, and then they swing. No load, no running start, and very little adjustabilty. The reality is that the hitter has from the time the pitcher receives the ball back from the catcher to the time the ball comes out of the pitcher's hand to start their negative move. IOW, they have all kinds of time.

Sorry for the long rant, I just see this type swing being taught in my area a lot, including girls on our team, and it drives me nuts because it makes it harder for the girls to get on base consistently against decent pitching. I don't know about the girls on your teams, but the girls on our team don't have as much fun when they aren't getting on base. The look of frustration on their faces just tears me up.

 

[SBFAMILY]

I have to agree with Wellphyt. I worked three hours with our high school team last night and same issues. I don't like this drill , but it would be interesting to see the swing against live pitching. The problem is so many don't want to learn what we are teaching in the fast pitch game today. I attended a D3 college camp, that my dd was thinking about going to and it was just as Wellphyt stated. The coach didn't want movemnt and taught a gate rotation swing. Told my DD that has worked with hitter for 2 years + she had too much movement and she needed to change her swing. She then faced her college pitcher in a drill and pounded her. Later in the conversation I stated her BA is better than all but two of your players and that is playing up on a travel ball team. So it is being taught at the college level at least in Ohio . The good news is the high school coach wants to learn, so he asked any place you can post some swings. I told him I have a good place in mind! You may not like some of the comments, but if you want to improve you will get some good advice. Soon as I get them off my RVP to youtube I will post a few.

 

[PEPPERS]

FFS, I believe your observations are correct. This girl has a very typical fastpitch gate type swing. This is the most commonly taught swing in my area. Probably 7 out of 10 girls on our 14U team swing like this. This swing really begins to break down against good pitching. It's ok against average pitching. We have one girl in particular on our team who has been taught this swing for 3 years. She is a very dependable contact hitter against average pitching that will occasionally get her pitch and get a nice hit. Against better pitching she really struggles getting it out of the infield, and hits most balls to the second base girl. If the pitcher has decent control, it is a very easy swing for the pitcher to counteract. Throwing the ball on the inside corner above the waist or low middle-half out, will usually get the job done for the pitcher. Middle to outside high, seem to be the sweet spot for this particular girl.

IMO, instructors that teach this type swing are mired in the past and are not fully up to speed on the transformation that is happening in fastpitch hitting today. One specific example is the minimal to almost non-existent negative move. Minimal in the upper body, non-existent in the lower body. The reason hitters in fastpitch aren't taught to perform a negative move is because their instructors don't believe there is time. So what you get is a hitter that basically just stands there with their hands held at ear level, and then they swing. No load, no running start, and very little adjustabilty. The reality is that the hitter has from the time the pitcher receives the ball back from the catcher to the time the ball comes out of the pitcher's hand to start their negative move. IOW, they have all kinds of time.

Sorry for the long rant, I just see this type swing being taught in my area a lot, including girls on our team, and it drives me nuts because it makes it harder for the girls to get on base consistently against decent pitching. I don't know about the girls on your teams, but the girls on our team don't have as much fun when they aren't getting on base. The look of frustration on their faces just tears me up.

You are so on target, this style of swing is taught by personal instructors and team coaches too often. It works well at average or below pitchers, but the best pitchers this swing lets the player down.

We were taught to practice to hit the best pitchers you will face and the others should be easy. This young lady has a great amount of potential and she along with others will have problems reaching their potential using this swing. Coaches who teach this swing will try and change kids who swing correct, because it goes against their method no matter how good the player hits.

Too many coaches teach this in our area and wonder why they never make it to the finials when they can’t touch these pitchers. I at one time taught this, I learned from some successful coaches how to improve my coaching and players.

Like you this bothers me to see kids who are taught this method.


SBFAMILY I agree with you 100% I continue to learn on this forum and just attended the Got Bustos hitting instructions.

 

[bigblue]

I have to agree with Wellphyt. I worked three hours with our high school team last night and same issues. I don't like this drill , but it would be interesting to see the swing against live pitching. The problem is so many don't want to learn what we are teaching in the fast pitch game today. I attended a D3 college camp, that my dd was thinking about going to and it was just as Wellphyt stated. The coach didn't want movemnt and taught a gate rotation swing. Told my DD that has worked with hitter for 2 years + she had too much movement and she needed to change her swing. She then faced her college pitcher in a drill and pounded her. Later in the conversation I stated her BA is better than all but two of your players and that is playing up on a travel ball team. So it is being taught at the college level at least in Ohio . The good news is the high school coach wants to learn, so he asked any place you can post some swings. I told him I have a good place in mind! You may not like some of the comments, but if you want to improve you will get some good advice. Soon as I get them off my RVP to youtube I will post a few.

Sbfamily
I appreciate all the constructive comments here on this site and would not be insulted from any comments. I am here to learn from others experience and transfer that information to my DD and others to share...
Let me know when you post some videos please/...............
Thanks Bigblue
Thanks

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

SBFAMILY I agree with you 100% I continue to learn on this forum and just attended the Got Bustos hitting instructions.

Would appreciate hearing about this.

In the few videos I have of her, I see her grip the bat so as to bury the knob in the middle of her bottom hand. Was this point covered and was an explanation given?

 

[Wellphyt]

Would appreciate hearing about this.

In the few videos I have of her, I see her grip the bat so as to bury the knob in the middle of her bottom hand. Was this point covered and was an explanation given?

I am vary curious if Busto teaches how she actually swings. I say this for two reasons.

Have any of you seen the youtube clip of Jennie Finch talking to a group of young girls on the proper way to pitch? Finish with your pitching hand at your pitching arm shoulder with the elbow pointed towards the catcher

Then there is my personal experience teaching the overhand throw. It has taken me two years to figure out how to teach my daughter how to throw overhand correctly. I throw overhand fine, but I didn't know how to teach what I do naturally. Not knowing how to break down my throw, I taught the commonly taught "L" method, which as I now know is totally incorrect.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Yes Bustos teaches like she swings. I have worked with her for around 3 years, after Howard and I became friends
. Yes she does cover why she put the handle of her bat into her glove. At every clinic we have kids show up with Rocket Tec's and have no idea how to use the bat correctly and why they have a patent on that knob. She covers grip in detail, because as Howard has posted few of the kids we work with know how to use the wrist correctly and that is why he has the hammer drill and has built a special device to teach it. I walk around clinics looking for attachments on the handle and for those that chock up we cover it and every clinic she does. I will let Howard cover this in detail,, since he knows Bustos better than anyone I know. I have a new birthday present and after I learn how to use it , I will post a few Videos of high school players that I'm trying to change, but get very little time each year.. Your 13 year old will put some of them to shame!

Wellphyt, I have been to one of Jennie Finch's clinics and I understand what you are saying. I'm sure Howard is going to tease me about not paying attention to what she was teaching , since he has pictures to back it up !

 

[PEPPERS]

Sorry if I am a little slow to respond I suffered a stroke the day after the clinic, Feb 21, and am slower to type. I have my notes and have not reviewed them after my illness, seven pages of them.

At the coaches clinic they were some coaches who advised how much they improved their team and players after attending earlier clinics. She repeated much of the same advice we received from hitter on the form. She showed proper throwing and fielding and how that led to proper hitting.

There is a thread where hitter explains the grip along with a picture example this is a better explanation than I can give.

Let me encourage you to attend one of her clinics if you get a chance my daughter and myself learned a great deal. She is also very inspirational in her talk.

My daughter still talks about how Bustos hits a ball of the ground with authority.

 

[Hitter]

I am vary curious if Busto teaches how she actually swings. I say this for two reasons.

Have any of you seen the youtube clip of Jennie Finch talking to a group of young girls on the proper way to pitch? Finish with your pitching hand at your pitching arm shoulder with the elbow pointed towards the catcher

Then there is my personal experience teaching the overhand throw. It has taken me two years to figure out how to teach my daughter how to throw overhand correctly. I throw overhand fine, but I didn't know how to teach what I do naturally. Not knowing how to break down my throw, I taught the commonly taught "L" method, which as I now know is totally incorrect.

Wellphyt

The L is not completely incorrect it does have a different angle for some individuals especially girls and I know you do not want to hear that.

From the net.....

"When the arm is extended, with the palm facing forward or up, the bones of the humerus and forearm are not perfectly aligned. The deviation from a straight line occurs in the direction of the thumb, and is referred to as the “carrying angle” (visible in the right half of the picture, right).

The carrying angle permits the arm to be swung without contacting the hips. Women on average have smaller shoulders and wider hips than men, which may necessitate a greater carrying angle. There is, however, extensive overlap in the carrying angle between individual men and women, and a sex-bias has not been consistently observed in scientific studies [3] [4] [5]."

In my opinion when you look at each girl you will change their arm slot based on the carrying angle. This is why you see some girls throw more over head than others. As you throw I see the hand rotate outward and this can be an issue when the carrying angle is excessive.

Their glutes do fire the knee so we are different and they must be taught how to flex the knees so they can shift their weight and use their legs in my opinion.

This is why we teach throwing at our clinics prior to hitting so the kids understand a weight shift and how important it is to have a flexed knee verses rigid.

Next question, Crystl sits down more in her load and walks away from her hands verses separating the hands rearward.

She explains it takes more athleticism to make these moves and not all of the kids will be able to do it. We stress mechanics first and style second.

Those that have been to the clinics can add their input as to what they heard and saw us do.

Balance in everything we do!

Flex in the lead foot knee.

Getting a good two eyed look.

Stance width about 1.5 the width of the shoulders plus or minus 2 inches works pretty well to start.

Measuring the Big Zone to see how the bat can be directed to stay inside the path of the ball by the elbows being lead by the knob of the bat, the back hand and elbow staying stacked and the elbow being at the back hip and clearing enough based on each individual girls size.

Allowing the palm up and palm down to get the bat flat and the opening of the chest or turning so the knob is directing the elbows and making sure we allow the knob to travel far enough so we are not hitting around the ball. She terms it staying in the lane and uses a human ball by having a kid walk down the middle of home plate as she slowly starts her swing.

In the beginning we start off very slowly using caution tape as a pitch coming down the middle and teach up the middle first and then an outside pitch.

You keyed on a very important aspect that many miss or choose to interpret their own way when using clips of the great ones.

Not everyone can swing like her and why should they? Same with Bonds, AP or anyone else you choose to put up there.

My students are from 8 to 33 plus years old and if they were as good as some of you parents think they are there would be a surplus of kids for D1 schools and 16 year olds playing in the bigs and NPF!

My kids are kids and not kids from a D1 program or in the minor leagues that already have demonstrated some proficiencies on hitting which is what got them there.

Hope this helps...

Thanks Howard

 

[Daddy O]

Peppers,
Sorry to hear about your stroke. Hope you are on the road to recovery.
I would just like to second your comment on if you ever get a chance to attend a Bustos clinic please do so. Even if you do not follow her method of hitting, the inspirational talk to the girls is almost worth the price of admission.