Caught ball, force out?

Mad4Ball · Aug 1, 2017

Bottom of the 7th inning of the semifinals. Down to our last out. We hit a ball to the SS who barely threw the batter out at first. After the out was called the first baseman (who made a snow cone catch) dropped the ball. The drop happened about 2 seconds after the catch while the first baseman came out of her catch pose.

I asked the base ump if he watched the ball drop after the catch and he said he didn't. The plate ump and the base ump got together and changed the call to safe. We went on to score two more runs advancing to the championship game.

So the questions is did they get the call right? She had the ball under control those two seconds. I'm just not sure what the rules are around this compared to fly ball catch.

nixxy311 · Aug 1, 2017

That's one of the reasons why DH gets annoyed on the final out of an inning in some of the college SB games because a lot of the times the girls just drop the ball because they know they made the out and then leave the ball out there - he feels like you should be holding it longer to verify the out..

Granted in higher level play it shouldn't matter but in our league where it's still super possible it might come out..

KCPhoto · Aug 1, 2017

It's not how long you hold the ball, it's showing you have control of the ball. If it drops from the glove, it's more likely to be called dropped. If player, no matter how quickly, transfers ball to throwing hand and drops it, it is a catch.

Definitely a judgment call, but I would make sure players always transfer ball to throwing hand to demonstrate control.

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MTR · Aug 1, 2017

Mad4Ball said:
Bottom of the 7th inning of the semifinals. Down to our last out. We hit a ball to the SS who barely threw the batter out at first. After the out was called the first baseman (who made a snow cone catch) dropped the ball. The drop happened about 2 seconds after the catch while the first baseman came out of her catch pose.

I asked the base ump if he watched the ball drop after the catch and he said he didn't. The plate ump and the base ump got together and changed the call to safe. We went on to score two more runs advancing to the championship game.

So the questions is did they get the call right? She had the ball under control those two seconds. I'm just not sure what the rules are around this compared to fly ball catch.

IMO, no. Since the umpire shouldn't rule the runner out until s/he has judged the ball in control of the defender, the assumption must be that was the case if the umpire ruled the runner out. There is no defined time which a defender must hold the ball, just that there is control and/or a voluntary release. There is no difference between this or any other catch, just show control. I agree that after 2 seconds and an out call, I'm probably not really going to care what happens to the ball.

MTR · Aug 1, 2017

nixxy311 said:
That's one of the reasons why DH gets annoyed on the final out of an inning in some of the college SB games because a lot of the times the girls just drop the ball because they know they made the out and then leave the ball out there - he feels like you should be holding it longer to verify the out..

Granted in higher level play it shouldn't matter but in our league where it's still super possible it might come out..

Ask DH just how long he thinks they should hold it? Was there a voluntary release? If so, it was caught since you cannot release something you don't have.

canyonjoe · Aug 1, 2017

We had a big discussion with our team about finishing the play last week. Run until you hear it's foul. In this case if you are playing 1B don't drop the ball out of your glove, take it out with your hand and roll it. Never give the illusion that you might not have caught the ball. An even bigger mistake I see are 1B who think they made the third out on a close play and don't look at runners. If it's a bang-bang play you never know which way it will go.

nixxy311 · Aug 1, 2017

MTR said:
Ask DH just how long he thinks they should hold it? Was there a voluntary release? If so, it was caught since you cannot release something you don't have.

He just thinks they release it super quickly - and it's when they let it come out of the glove not a transfer to the other hand. Just something to make it clear to the ump that they actually have control - so if something like the OP said happens - it's clear it's an out.

MTR · Aug 1, 2017

nixxy311 said:
He just thinks they release it super quickly - and it's when they let it come out of the glove not a transfer to the other hand. Just something to make it clear to the ump that they actually have control - so if something like the OP said happens - it's clear it's an out.

Apparently, it was clear enough for the umpires

Caught ball, force out?

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