What would you have done different?

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Nov 3, 2012
480
16
My DD#1 pitched D1 Juco ball, and went to the D1 Juco world series twice. Her former juco coach became a D1 coach. After juco, DD#1 became an NCAA D1 all-conference pitcher. Her max speed was 67MPH. She had a nasty drop ball, which was as good as any drop ball I've seen. (As I've said many times before, her biggest drawback was that she didn't have a good changeup.)

Sluggers, kind of staying on topic, but I'm focusing on your change-up comment. One thing I consistently see at the high school level is the coaches and/or catcher rarely call the changeup. Her travel ball coaches don't call it enough either. She throws hard and has a good rise, but eventually good hitters start timing her. The change up normally works when they do call it, but its like they forget to throw it. My DD change up is decent, not great, but we work on it. I've been watching a lot of college softball lately, and they throw it a lot. You got to throw the timing off on good hitters.

Im learning as it this goes, and the changeup can be one of the toughest pitches to throw. My DD biggest problem is she slows the arm down. I believe that's the most typical problem with the change. So in hind sight, would you have done something different with your DD develop her change up more? Im just trying to keep her improving on this, pitch. Also, she pitched for a good Juco and D1 team, did the college pitching coaches try to change the way she through the change up? This is coming from crazy parent of high school pitcher.
 
Oct 11, 2010
8,337
113
Chicago, IL
You got to throw the timing off on good hitters.

That is the rub with CU, you do not want to give batters not keeping up with P's FB, and/or other pitches, a chance to catchup to ball.

I wish I had called it more at younger ages depending on game situation. Throwing CU only against the best hitters is a catch 22.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,131
113
Dallas, Texas
(NOTE: I thought this was a good question, so I created its own thread. I've asked Riseball to chime in on this...his DD is an accomplished D1 pitcher.)

So in hind sight, would you have done something different with your DD develop her change up more?

I would have worked on it more.

a) I would have streamlined our practices and taken out the stuff that didn't matter so we would have had more time to practice the change. I would have kept "walkthroughs" and quadrants (control work) in the practice and dumped a bunch of other stuff.

b) I would have used another set of eyes (probably my wife) to help with arm speed on the change.

c) I coached her for two years in TB. I would have called the changeup much, much more.

d) I would have insisted that the TB coach call the changeup more. When DD#3 (the one who played hoops in college) played TB, I insisted that the TB (not HS) coach call the changeup at least once per batter unless the batter was hopelessly outclassed by her FB. I didn't like being "that dad", but I didn't see any other way to handle it.

Also, she pitched for a good Juco and D1 team, did the college pitching coaches try to change the way she through the change up?

My DD rarely tried to throw a change in college. My DD compensated for the lack of change up by developing a really good offspeed drop and drop curve. My DD threw her FB and her drop in the low 60s most of her college career. So, she would throw a drop or drop curve at 50-55 MPH.

It was a good solution, but the better solution would have been for her to have a change.

College coaches want performance during game. They don't do a whole lot of teaching. There is a lot of work on accuracy and speed.
 
Last edited:
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
Im learning as it this goes, and the changeup can be one of the toughest pitches to throw. My DD biggest problem is she slows the arm down. I believe that's the most typical problem with the change. So in hind sight, would you have done something different with your DD develop her change up more?

I've begun trying a new approach to the change up with pretty good results.

I started a recent workout with DD by asking her to repeat the mantra "a change up is not a slow pitch. it is simply a pitch thrown differently".
I made her say it out loud - several times.

The reasoning is: if your grip and mechanics are supportive of the change up, then trying to throw a slow pitch should not even factor in the mindset at all!
If she: a) grips the ball deep in her hand, b) turns out at/after 12:00, c) works to get her hand in front of the elbow to/through release, d) gets a "hard lifting action" with her hand at/after release
then the pitch will be slower, and will be spinning well.

DD has a good change, but in games, I would sometimes see her stiffen-up in her delivery, and occasionally slow down her mechanics - and try to guide/release late for accuracy.
I explained that this approach to the change will never be consistent for her, and even worse, the balls that do fall through the zone will get hammered. Mostly because the pitch delivered this way has no spin rate - no "life".

Since approaching the change up with this mindset, her success with it in games has improved.
 
Last edited:
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
I have to agree with the CU, I wish I would have pressed the issue with Jake well before college. Unfortunately until she got to the SEC she simply did not need it. She had a D1 level riseball in HS/TB and when it was on, she needed nothing else. When a kid is averaging 14k's per game it is hard to convince her she needs a CU. It is only now as college Senior that I would consider it serviceable. When it is on like it was vs Auburn it is as good as anyone's and she is very hard to beat. When she does not have it she is at a distinct disadvantage.

The only thing else is to develop a very strong down ball. Not necessarily a "drop ball" but something she can throw one ball in at the bottom of the zone. Since we started our journey the defined strike zone has gotten smaller and the vast majority of umpires interpretation of the zone is smaller still. There are times when an East/West pitcher does not have a prayer of getting a call and is lucky to get a swing unless the pitch is fat. A good down ball is the only pitch that can be thrown a full ball on the plate at the bottom of the zone and not get hammered. The heavier the down ball the better. One of the best I have seen recently is Jake's SC teammate Nickie Blue. I suspect [MENTION=332]sluggers[/MENTION] DD threw the same pitch.

I suggest the following for any who are into the journey or just starting:

1) Command is paramount.

2) Learn to mix speeds. The days of blowing it past hitters are behind us.

3) Your toolbox must include a good down ball because when all else fails it will keep you in the game.
 
Nov 16, 2015
184
18
Just a question that i have based on this topic. Do you teach your pitchers how to change speeds within their pitches?

Is your fastball typically 1 speed or do you teach to adjust grips, leg drive to take a few miles per hour off
 
Sep 3, 2015
372
63
I would also like to know how a pitcher can change speeds with her FB/DB (same pitch for DD). I can't tell you how many times there are 3-4 fouls on a 2 strike count and you want to throw something other than a change. This is 12u
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,131
113
Dallas, Texas
When a kid is averaging 14k's per game it is hard to convince her she needs a CU.

Great point...that is *exactly* the problem.

If a kid isn't pitching well, the coaches will be very supportive in learning a new pitch. But, if the kid is pitching well, she and her coaches won't devote the time to working on another pitch.


A good down ball is the only pitch that can be thrown a full ball on the plate at the bottom of the zone and not get hammered.

Yep...another great point.

I watched a HS game where the pitcher was going D1. The girl had a so-so riseball, but she live at the very bottom of the strike zone with her fastball.
 
Last edited:
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Just a question that i have based on this topic. Do you teach your pitchers how to change speeds within their pitches?

Is your fastball typically 1 speed or do you teach to adjust grips, leg drive to take a few miles per hour off

I would also like to know how a pitcher can change speeds with her FB/DB (same pitch for DD). I can't tell you how many times there are 3-4 fouls on a 2 strike count and you want to throw something other than a change. This is 12u

With the exception of the location, spin, and speed you want every pitch to look the same. So mucking with mechanics is not a good idea. It will not be easy at 12U or 14U because the hands are small and they have little in the way of body awareness, but I have had great success just modifying the grip and release. Worked with a kid yesterday who has a pretty good drop ball that she was bringing just south of 60mph. Had her move her thumb closer to her index finger and get the ball on the pads of her palm. Did not tell her what I was up to, just to throw it hard. After a few in the dirt she started feeling it and her drop went down to 53-54mph. As [MENTION=13577]jsoftballcoach[/MENTION] suggested I told her to practice this and save it for the 2nd or 3rd look when they start fouling it off. You should never play all your cards the first time through the order. :)
 

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