Lag ... and how it pertains to the swing.

[Buttermaker]

If it's possible because I know you said you 'showed' your friend but, could you explain what you showed him.

I literally grabbed his shoulder blade as I had him go into this back swing and shoved it into his spine. Same as I show to my hitters. At the top of his backswing I had him start down and I pushed down his spine so he could feel the way the scap pressure should feel. Update - he played again yesterday and said he gained more distance (played his home course so he knows where he normally hits out to) even into the wind. He is sold. Showing it to his golf team.

Check the arrows on Posey

 

[rdbass]

I literally grabbed his shoulder blade as I had him go into this back swing and shoved it into his spine. Same as I show to my hitters. At the top of his backswing I had him start down and I pushed down his spine so he could feel the way the scap pressure should feel. Update - he played again yesterday and said he gained more distance (played his home course so he knows where he normally hits out to) even into the wind. He is sold. Showing it to his golf team.

Check the arrows on Posey

Learning to swing with his back( Dis-closer-- read that on a blog) . Does that sound OK/workable.

Posey gif: I 'feel' scrunch...

I literally grabbed his shoulder blade as I had him go into this back swing and shoved it into his spine

Honest questions: Where exactly did you 'grab' or put your hand. For some reason I'm picturing shoulder/deltoid and push inward or are you more in the back. I'm talking more for a hitter because I suck at golf.

 

[Buttermaker]

Yup - not explaining anything new. Meeting up with blogger hopefully Monday night

 

[Buttermaker]

Learning to swing with his back( Dis-closer-- read that on a blog) . Does that sound OK/workable.

Posey gif: I 'feel' scrunch...

Honest questions: Where exactly did you 'grab' or put your hand. For some reason I'm picturing shoulder/deltoid and push inward or are you more in the back. I'm talking more for a hitter because I suck at golf.

Shoulder blade. Not the shoulder.

 

[rdbass]

Yup - not explaining anything new. Meeting up with blogger hopefully Monday night

Lucky you. I see he is in NJ.
Ok. seems like we are on the same page. How do you feel about the Snap Stop Drill to help 'find your back'.

 

[rdbass]

Posting for anyone that may care. Most won't...but, that's OK.

You won't believe what made the biggest difference for her today. I said it above. "She found her back"
How? Um.....this is how.

The eyes and belly button check point were not right. The above fixed 'em.

Did I hear someone yell "Squish the bug is bad?"

I have to laugh at you surface dwellers.

When you pick up a bat and try to duplicate the best, you'll see the connection between the drill and the swing.

Until then......you got no chance.

I thought so also (bug squish) until I watched the demo/gif a few times.....
Look at the belly button.

 

[slugger3]

If you want to use any of those tools most efficiently, the wrists should not be used as a driver or power source. Think about a simple hammer, if you're like me it probably takes me at least twice the number of blows to drive a nail into a 2x4 than it does a professional house framer. And there's no way I'd be able to do it all day like the pro because I am using too much wrist and not relying on the bigger muscles. Use a longer framing hammer or a longer handled tool like a sledge hammer or axe and this should be even more evident.

Relative to hanging pictures, I use a tack hammer and control the blow with my wrist so that I don't miss and put holes in my wall. I don't want to see your walls if you're swinging a ball peen hammer for that task!

Uh...ya...
We must operate tools differently in MN than you guys do out in New England.
Used a hammer (only a 16 oz) and the ol' axe...for some tests.
All of you can try this at home...
I grabbed a couple of short pieces of 2x6's, and stacked them on top of each other on my wood topped work bench in the garage.
I started some 16d (16 penny) nails in the top of the upper stud. Just enough to keep the nail from wobbling back and back.
I then kept my forearm parallel to the board, without swinging my arm at the elbow joint
And drove the nails into the stacked boards in 5-6 blows...all wrist...yes I may be alittle stronger than some, but the general movements are the same, ok maybe it'll take you 10-12 blows with the hammer, maybe only 3
did my forearm flex? of course it did...that's what powers your wrists, your tricep also gets engaged when doing this...
You guys do realize that all of the tools I mentioned above, you finish the movement of by "powering" the tool with your wrists, into what you're hitting.

I'm telling ya, go try driving some 16d nails into some scrap pieces of wood and try to tell me that your not using your wrists to drive the hammer head into the nail...and then try it with loose wrists, and tell me how well that works.

We must have learned how to use tools a little differenly I guess....
As for the axe...chopped a couple of pieces of wood... and sure enough drove the head through the wood by powering the axe head through the wood with my wrists....every time...
Yes, you lift the axe up, utilizing gravity and your shoulders and elbows as well, but you finish the movement by driving the axe head into the wood with your...wrists...

That dang axe head is loose too...kids must of been hitting rocks with it again, and workin' on powering their wrists through like their ol' man...
And here is a little advice for your guys...I strongly advise never using a pick axe or wood axe with "loose wrists". You wanna hurt your wrists...be my guest.

Like I said...we will agree to disagree on the use of wrists in batting technique
and trust me...I completely believe you guys when you say you teach "loose" wrists, I don't

And if you ever get a chance, take ball exit speed measurements when comparing the 2

 

[Ken B]

I'm telling ya, go try driving some 16d nails into some scrap pieces of wood and try to tell me that your not using your wrists to drive the hammer head into the nail...and then try it with loose wrists, and tell me how well that works.
You can do it for a while, but your forearm will like you much better if you relax your wrist.

As for the axe...chopped a couple of pieces of wood... and sure enough drove the head through the wood by powering the axe head through the wood with my wrists....every time...
Yes, you lift the axe up, utilizing gravity and your shoulders and elbows as well, but you finish the movement by driving the axe head into the wood with your...wrists...
Having worked on a tree farm for a few years, I can say without question that splitting rounds with an 8 lb maul is much easier with loose wrists. I would not recommend splitting a lot of wood with an axe.

....................

 

[rdbass]

My head is spinnning I believe the point is to not hold the hinge angle( tight wrist) through contact but, release the hinge angle(loose wrist) going into contact.
Or how about this only use your wrist when holding a hammer to hit a nail. Don't move your arm but,only your wrist. How far that nail go in.....

 

[Greenmonsters]

S3 - all the credit to you for testing, but.....If you get the swing sequence right, the wrists serve to transfer and effectively add power. Think tip of a whip or complex pendulum, or a fly line - you can't do anything to increase the terminal velocity after initiation. In the cases of hitting, hammering etc the wrists ALLOW it, rather than MAKE it, to happen.

Having done the experiments and still not buying in, I think you should try to wade through the earlier linked thread with Doc Nathan's explanation of the physics. Yes, it may make your brain muscles hurt, but it is worth it IME.

Best of luck- GM