Lag ... and how it pertains to the swing.

[ian]

Does anyone here believe the grip and forearms can be firm while the wrists remain workable?
In other words....If your firm grip carries into your wrists locking them then a problem has been created. Usually moving the handle out of the palm and into the fingers keeps the wrists from locking. Once you know what it feels like you can adjust your grip...When many hitters are told to focus on the hands they immediately relax or tighten everything from finger tips to elbows.
It seems difficult to absorb but try it....

That pretty much sums it up. When I swing I don't think of tightness in the grip. If I do try to swing with a loose grip, bad things happen. If I try to hit with a tight grip, I don't do as well as a regular swing. Can't even attempt to swing with stiff wrists. Grip doesn't matter on blackout-pure-sweet spot hits. Hits off the sweet spot will go farther with a firm grip. IMO

 

[Greenmonsters]

.... Hits off the sweet spot will go farther with a firm grip. IMO

This past weekend's march for science and collision physics do not support this belief. Regardless of the size of the hitter or quality of contact (sweet spot or mis hits), bat speed determines ball exit speed, which ultimately determines distance.

You only need to grip the bat firmly enough to be able to control and launch. Any tighter than that then you run the risk of decreasing bat speed.

 

[Buttermaker]

Does anyone here believe the grip and forearms can be firm while the wrists remain workable?
In other words....If your firm grip carries into your wrists locking them then a problem has been created. Usually moving the handle out of the palm and into the fingers keeps the wrists from locking. Once you know what it feels like you can adjust your grip...When many hitters are told to focus on the hands they immediately relax or tighten everything from finger tips to elbows.
It seems difficult to absorb but try it....

Try this as well - hands a little forward - create firm grip with forearms without locking wrists - pull hands back. Where do you feel it the most?

 

[tjintx]

What do you see as the benefit of a firm grip?

My point was more of a focus on the wrists not becoming locked whether the grip was firm or loose. I understand where you are coming from in regards to force production....
I believe that a tensed muscle is a directional muscle, a tensed muscle cannot redirect. It must first be relaxed, redirected, then refired.... so the muscles must feel the barrel(barrel awareness) before directing it. The tension felt on the handle of the bat is not fixed but moves into, out of, and back in to directional tension before released.
A death grip? No! An informational grip? Yes! A connected grip? Yes! Moving through the tensions without locking the wrists......

 

[tjintx]

Try this as well - hands a little forward - create firm grip with forearms without locking wrists - pull hands back. Where do you feel it the most?

Pretty sure I know what you're saying. Just for clarification, when you say "pull the hands back", what mechanism is pulling the hands back?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Does anyone here believe the grip and forearms can be firm while the wrists remain workable?
In other words....If your firm grip carries into your wrists locking them then a problem has been created. Usually moving the handle out of the palm and into the fingers keeps the wrists from locking. Once you know what it feels like you can adjust your grip...When many hitters are told to focus on the hands they immediately relax or tighten everything from finger tips to elbows.
It seems difficult to absorb but try it....

Spot on IMO.

Firm fingers ... to the extent that you have loose wrists.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Pretty sure I know what you're saying. Just for clarification, when you say "pull the hands back", what mechanism is pulling the hands back?

Curious how Butter will answer this.

Imagine a catcher transferring the ball from their glove to their throwing hand in the vicinity of their rear shoulder ... they are in a sense pulling the ball out of their glove with their throwing elbow, and not so much with their hand ... more to a sense, they are using the muscles around the rear shoulder ... the rear shoulder is loose, not tight ... and this, for many, is an action of "preparing to throw" relative to the rear shoulder ..... and that pretty much is what "walking away from the hands" is ... a movement of the body forward as the hitter prepares to throw ... with the preparing to throw simply being an action relative to what is occurring in the rear shoulder. Walking away from the hands = forward & prepare to throw.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I am not 100% certain what this “pulling back” is. My hunch is that it is an attempt to describe a feel of ‘lag’.

There is a pressure build-up that has the rear scap being pressured towards the backside … … … it is a pressure build-up that folks want to feel, cherish and embrace … it is a pressure build-up that permits a transfer of energy through the body and through the rear shoulder, as opposed to ‘from the rear shoulder’ … it is a pressure build-up that some, unfortunately, sense as a power source that has them prematurely protracting their rear shoulder in what could be considered a ‘push’ … and for these folks it often helps to allow the hitter to permit the pressure build-up to occur dynamically (... and learn what is meant by initially 'losing the arm wrestling match').

As the lower body and core initiate the swing, you in a sense initially ‘lose the arm wrestling match’ … i.e., you ‘lag’ … and it is this ‘lag’ that gives rise to this pressure build-up that I believe is being described and takes place as the swing is initiated. It is a pressure build-up that ‘results’ during a proper swing.

Much of this can be controlled simply from a proper sense of looseness.

 

[Buttermaker]

Pretty sure I know what you're saying. Just for clarification, when you say "pull the hands back", what mechanism is pulling the hands back?

However you wish to. It's a way to get a certain feel.

 

[tjintx]

However you wish to. It's a way to get a certain feel.

Just trying to iron this out a bit.... are you simply saying move the hands in front of the chest then move them back towards the catcher via arm movement keeping the forearms stiff or firm?
What feel or where should the feel be?
Does the que "keep the hands looking at the ball" fit in with this movement?