cutoff situation runner at 2nd

MTR · Feb 13, 2010

F6 always cut off.

F5 & F4 cover respective bases.

F1 back-up 3B; F3 back-up C

If you want 1B covered, used F9, she is close enough and has nothing better to do.

The conductor can be either F1, F3 or F2, depending on the coach's confidence in the player's ability to recognize the variables and probabilities (no possibilities) presented in multiple scenarios. At the higher level, it SHOULD be the catcher.

No matter who is going where only ONE person should be opening their mouth and that is whomever the coach has designated at the conductor, or director or whatever you want to call the player running the show. Too often players on the field (along with their parents in the stands) all of a sudden become coaches and the player taking the cut (if necessary) with her back to the play is hearing multiple directions and unless she can pick the one voice out of the group, isn't going to be able to execute a relay (if necessary) without turning, stopping and looking for a play.

ctfastpitch · Feb 14, 2010

MTR said:
F6 always cut off.

We play F6 should be the cutoff/relay in the OF on a deep shot. F3 is the interior (infield) cutoff on the throw to the catcher (usually a taller player (big target) with a big glove). This way, if F6 is not needed for a relay, she can move to backup a cut throw to 3B for a play on the batter there. F8 is in position to back up a cut throw to 2B.

We also reinforce that F3 is NOT there for a relay to Home on a normal throw. If she cuts off a good throw, we lose the play at the plate. She is there to cut off a weak or off-line throw, or cut the throw to make a play on the batter IF instructed by the Catcher.

F5 & F4 cover respective bases.

Agreed

F1 back-up 3B; F3 back-up C

We play F1 moves to back up C for a throw to Home. On a shot past OF then the 2B runner will score, so with no play at Home, F3 continues over to back up 3B.

If you want 1B covered, used F9, she is close enough and has nothing better to do.

Agree...F9 should be moving to back up a possible throw from LF to 2B, so she is already on her way toward 1B.

The conductor can be either F1, F3 or F2, depending on the coach's confidence in the player's ability to recognize the variables and probabilities (no possibilities) presented in multiple scenarios. At the higher level, it SHOULD be the catcher.

We have Catcher make the call. She has the play in front of her, and she is the ONLY one on a throw to Home that can tell F3 to let the throw through for a play at Home, or cut for a play on the batter at 3B or 2B

StacieM · Feb 14, 2010

It can be very difficult for the 1b to get there in certain cases - especially when the ball is hit as a smoking grounder through the infield because the 1b first reaction is not to go run over to get the cut.

In "typical" situations, I like the SS being the cut. Only because on a hard hit to LF, her 1st reaction is to go out there anyway. Not to drop back toward the infield to get 3rd so the 3b can run from their tight starting position to get out and get the cut.

However, as others have said, it really depends on your personnel and which they are most comfortable and most effective with.

At high school varsity level, honestly, with the ball hit right at the LF (they don't have to drop back nor are they playing deep to begin with) we don't need a cut home. First of all, the runner at 2b won't make it that far on a ball hit right to the LF - again, that's given that LF is not playing deep to begin with.

If she is, again, on a hot grounder through, the SS 1st reaction is out to the ball, not in to 3b (typically) so I'd rather her set up for cut.

On a fly ball to LF, the runner at 2b better NOT be getting home!

ctfastpitch · Feb 14, 2010

StacieM said:
It can be very difficult for the 1b to get there in certain cases - especially when the ball is hit as a smoking grounder through the infield because the 1b first reaction is not to go run over to get the cut.

In "typical" situations, I like the SS being the cut. Only because on a hard hit to LF, her 1st reaction is to go out there anyway. Not to drop back toward the infield to get 3rd so the 3b can run from their tight starting position to get out and get the cut.

However, as others have said, it really depends on your personnel and which they are most comfortable and most effective with.

At high school varsity level, honestly, with the ball hit right at the LF (they don't have to drop back nor are they playing deep to begin with) we don't need a cut home. First of all, the runner at 2b won't make it that far on a ball hit right to the LF - again, that's given that LF is not playing deep to begin with.

If she is, again, on a hot grounder through, the SS 1st reaction is out to the ball, not in to 3b (typically) so I'd rather her set up for cut.

On a fly ball to LF, the runner at 2b better NOT be getting home!

Not sure we are talking about exactly the same thing. In this situation, with a base hit to LF we always have the SS go out to grass in case she is needed for a cut-off/relay throw in. Most times, with a normal depth left fielder, the throw is going directly home and no relay is needed. That is where F3 comes into play. We have her as the interior (infield) cut off, and she moves to a spot roughly between the pitchers plate and 3B, on a direct line from the left fielder to catcher. What she does depends on where the runners are, and how good the throw from LF is.

If it is a strong, accurate throw, she will either:

Let the throw go through to the catcher if there is a play at the plate, or if the 2B runner held up a 3B
If there is no chance to get the runner at home, the catcher will shout to her to cut the throw and where to throw to stop another runner from advancing (e.g. Cut-3 to keep a runner from 1B from advancing to 3B)
If the baserunners are not trying to advance any further, then she will "cut & hold"

These are all based on instructions from the catcher

If the throw from LF is off-line or too weak to make it to Home, then F3 will always cut it, and the catcher should tell her where to make the next throw, based on where the runners are

If the hit gets by F7, and there will be no play at Home, then F3 just continues on into foul territory to back up a throw from LF to 3B.

If the hit goes to RF, then the F4 & F6 roles change, but F3 still plays the same cutoff roll, this time on the 1B side of the infield. F7 then comes in to back up 3B.

We use F3 in this "interior" cutoff roll, just about any time there is a throw from OF to Home (extra base hit with a runner on 1B, runner on 3B tagging up on a fly ball, etc)

Again...F3's primary role is NOT for a relay...she is there to redirect a throw home to another base if necessary.

MTR · Feb 14, 2010

ctfastpitch said:
We play F1 moves to back up C for a throw to Home. On a shot past OF then the 2B runner will score, so with no play at Home, F3 continues over to back up 3B.

Don't understand why you would have two players cross paths while proceeding to the farthest respective point.

We have Catcher make the call.

That is fine as long as she is the best player to make that decision.

She has the play in front of her, and she is the ONLY one on a throw to Home that can tell F3 to let the throw through for a play at Home, or cut for a play on the batter at 3B or 2B

Not necessarily automatic. The catcher is in a two-dimensional situation. Sometimes someone off the side or better angle (i.e. F3 heading to back up F2) to determine where the most likely play would be. Again, not automatic, but shouldn't necessarily be dismissed.

Greenmonsters · Feb 15, 2010

I agree w/ CTFP - cut call (or no call) on throw to the plate should always be made by the catcher. The entire field is in front of them, they can see where all the runners are, they can tell if the throw is on or off line, and since they don't have to move more than 5 feet to get in position, they can see the play develop, judge the runners' speed, see how wide they turn 3B etc. IMO the C is the only player w/ "all the data" to make the best decision and is the one voice that the cut off should be listening for. That said, like anything else, it is something that needs to be practiced so that the catcher gets used to processing the situation-specific info and making the right decision. Think about it, there could be as much as a 1/2 second difference between the time that it takes a fast runner and slow runner 1/2 down the 3B line to reach the plate - that time differential easily can correspond to a throw traveling an additional 30-45 feet and result in a different outcome. The ability to consistently make the right cut deciision is one of the things that separates catchers from players who catch.

GM

Sean Hall · Feb 16, 2010

I personally always use the pitcher (as long as she is somewhat athletic). She is always within 10 feet of perfect cutoff position. Then you can keep all of your infielders at their respective bases.

The downside is we don't have anyone backing up the plate. But what I have found is the runner that just got the single will get to 2B if the throw gets by the catcher but if the catcher hustles they won't make it all the way to 3B. What we may lose in not having a back-up we gain by always having a position player near the base and the pitcher in a good spot to cut the throw off.

Thanks,
Sean Hall

ctfastpitch · Feb 16, 2010

MTR said:
Don't understand why you would have two players cross paths while proceeding to the farthest respective point.

In this situation, F1 & F3 don't really cross paths. By the time the pitchers has thrown, she is in a defensive postion roughly at the front of the circle (7' or so in front of the pitcher's plate). She just continues on behind Catcher to back up. F3 moves behind the pitcher to her cutoff spot (about mid-way between the pitcher's plate and 3B). We like F3 as the interior cutoff because she is typically a taller kid with a big glove, so when she has her arms extended for the cutoff, she is a nice target for the OF to throw at.

ctfastpitch · Feb 16, 2010

Sean Hall said:
I personally always use the pitcher (as long as she is somewhat athletic). She is always within 10 feet of perfect cutoff position. Then you can keep all of your infielders at their respective bases.

The downside is we don't have anyone backing up the plate. But what I have found is the runner that just got the single will get to 2B if the throw gets by the catcher but if the catcher hustles they won't make it all the way to 3B. What we may lose in not having a back-up we gain by always having a position player near the base and the pitcher in a good spot to cut the throw off.

Thanks,
Sean Hall

I agree with having F4 & F5 stay at their base, but I'm not really sure what you gain by having F3 stay at her base on a base hit to the LF or CF. Again, I like F3 as the cutoff because of her size (usually) and ability to catch less than perfect throws.

SnocatzDad · Feb 17, 2010

Everything is always dependent on what athletes you have but...

Real advantage to using pitcher for cutoff to home is that they

A. Are already in a good interior infield cutoff position
B. By cutting the ball and stepping into the circle they can force runners to commit.

F3 holding the ball in the circle is license to steal until she gives it up to the pitcher and the transfer from F3 to F1 is an offensive opportunity

cutoff situation runner at 2nd

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