Your thoughts Please!!!!

[BretMan]

I interpret that "may" as being "empowered." If the umpire determines the situation warrants being rectified and there is a fair remedy, they have a responsibility to do it.

Therein lies the rub...if the umpire doesn't determine that the situation warrants being rectified, then he does nothing.

That determination is where the "judgment and discretion" that I mentioned comes into play. A coach might not agree with his judgment, and sometimes his judgment might be poor judgment, but his judgment is his judgment- it is what it is.

This one got me digging a little deeper and I found some interesting rulings. The high school case book has no fewer than three different sample plays involving reversed ball/strike calls on full count, each with different twists as to the runner getting tagged out or not, or if she was stealing on the pitch, or the if batter getting thrown out at first. Each one has a different twist in the ruling depending on the circumstances surrounding the play. So, again, there is no "one size fits all" solution to rectifying this play.

Unfortunately, there isn't a case play that exactly fits the play we're discussing, where R1 safely reaches second base and the catcher is late in her checked swing appeal.

 

[canyonjoe]

Just wondering... If the runner were running on the 3-2 pitch which is highly likely and the catcher hears ball 4, does that make a difference if you send the runner back.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Therein lies the rub...if the umpire doesn't determine that the situation warrants being rectified, then he does nothing.

Determining there is nothing to fix or no remedy is fine. Deciding to ignore a valid situation and/or a fair remedy is not an option as could be inferred from your previous post.

 

[BretMan]

Determining there is nothing to fix or no remedy is fine. Deciding to ignore a valid situation and/or a fair remedy is not an option as could be inferred from your previous post.

Maybe you missed my point- or maybe I just didn't make it very well.

The first judgment is determining if it is a valid situation to rectify or not. If the umpire decides it is, then by all means he should try to fix it. I don't mean to imply or suggest otherwise.

What I'm saying is that if the umpire decides it's not, then that's the decision you're stuck with.

 

[marriard]

$5 says I see this exact situation next weekend.

 

[MT 73]

Here is an application of 10-3-C that may better serve as an example of the spirit of the rule.
Runner is stealing second base and is called out. She starts walking towards the dugout and the BU notices that the ball is on the ground and shouts, "No--safe!! safe!!
The shortstop then picks up the ball and tags the runner who is now trying to get back to the base.
I think we can all agree that the decent thing to do is to place her back on second base since she did nothing wrong and was just reacting to an umpire's call.
While my first instinct in the OP was to call her out I suppose this would become a " Had To be There" situation and would depend on how long it took for the appeal to be honored.

 

[Sparky Guy]

One more question to muddy the waters. During a check swing appeal is the ball dead? You have the attention of both umpires centered on communicating with each other instead of the field. Can a runner advance while the umpires are communicating with each other and the defense is relaxed waiting for ruling?

My guess is the proper mechanics is for the HP to call time and them address the FU. Often times I've only seen the HP just ask for help without calling time.

 

[Comp]

No it is not a dead ball and cant be a dead ball. Otherwise a batter/runner on a D3K check swing would not be able to advance to 1st base. If playing action is still going on the PU should wait for play to stop before asking the BU for the appeal on the check swing. Its not like it is a long drawn out process, PU steps out, points at BU, calls by name or partner, SWING? and BU either says no and gives safe signal or yes and a hammer signal. Takes maybe 1-2 seconds at most. As previously mentioned, in a D3K situation where the umpire is not sure if the batter swung or not they should immediately go to their partner themselves.

 

[FPump]

As MTR said, only rule set I am aware of that forces the umpire to go for help on a check swing is NCAA.

Just to clarify, in NCAA if asked by the catcher the PU must ask for help. If anyone one else asks, "the umpire may (but not shall) ask for help." (11.13.5)

 

[MTR]

In baseball umpires are trained to ask for the appeal immediately ( without even being asked to) in this type of situation.
As to 10-3-C--the 2012 rule book no longer has the case play which illustrates this situation.

ASA rule books do not includes case plays.

One can argue that it only applies to umpire error, as opposed to a reversal of a checked swing appeal.
After all, there must be a reason as to why the case play was removed.

There is only so much room for case plays and inclusion is determined by the national staff based upon what is seen and heard on the field and in committee. IOW, they prioritize.

You have mentioned baseball a few times in your posts. Don't. Different size field, different equipment, different philosophies, different rules, different game.

From the 2013 ASA Clinic Guide (which along with the casebook is published only on the odd years):

Correctable decision:
The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpire’s decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or the defensive team in jeopardy. This correction is not possible after one pitch, legal or illegal, has been thrown, or after the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory on their way to the bench or dugout area, or after the last play of the game, the umpires have left the field of play.

In the OP, I would determine the disposition of the runner based upon the timing. If the runner was moving on the pitch and there was no effort being made by the catcher to make a play prior to the ball call being made, that runner will most likely stay there. If it is apparent the runner only advanced due to the ball call, the runner will be returned to 1B.