Wild pitch vs passed ball

[GunnerShotgun]

Unless they swing that is hard to do.

An eephus pitch (rainbow) can be thrown for a strike and will end up in the dirt if thrown properly. It's essentially a slow pitch softball strike.

 

[Eric F]

If the ball hits the dirt before the catcher is able to catch it with normal effort, it is a WP. Although blocking pitches in the dirt is something that competent catchers are expected to do, it's not considered part of "normal effort". It's the same as a 1B digging a short-hop. The competent 1B is expected to do it, but if they miss, the E goes to the thrower.

A pitcher just missing her spot isn't a WP. A pitcher missing the spot so far that it is out of the normal reach of the catcher is a WP. Of course, a decent catcher will adjust their position to give themselves the best opportunity to make the catch, even if the spot if missed. An important part of a catcher's job limiting the potential damage of their pitcher's mistakes.

The other way it's done...
If the P's parent is running the book - PB. If the C's parent is running the book - WP.

 

[grcsftbll]

I'm a score keeping pitcher's mom but I try really hard to be fair. In my opinion skewed stats are useless. Why bother?

 

[Phathead]

I have to disagree on balls hitting the dirt automatically being WP. Shouldn't this have the pitch called play into it. Pitcher has a pitch she commands well, say drop, crop that really move. Now ahead in count I'm calling one of those pitches and she knows I expect it slightly off the plate and no higher than bottom of knee. No if that is thrown as I want it should be a short hop pitch that a catcher wI'll hAve to dig 85% of the time aND wI'll result in some passed balls. Do you penilze the P for doing what you ask or put it the C who is being asked to stop every ball in the dirt and everyone of these is in the dirt. I belive when pitches li I he that are called no one takes the E.

 

[#7sDad]

I got one. Sorry to jump the thread.

1B fields a bunt down the first base line. She turns around and whips it at 2B from close range who is covering first. The 2B tries to catch it, but the balls goes off the tip of the mitt. Who's error. I don't think the 2B could have caught with 'normal effort', but don't know if that applies in this case.

 

[CoachKevin]

I have to disagree on balls hitting the dirt automatically being WP. Shouldn't this have the pitch called play into it. Pitcher has a pitch she commands well, say drop, crop that really move. Now ahead in count I'm calling one of those pitches and she knows I expect it slightly off the plate and no higher than bottom of knee. No if that is thrown as I want it should be a short hop pitch that a catcher wI'll hAve to dig 85% of the time aND wI'll result in some passed balls. Do you penilze the P for doing what you ask or put it the C who is being asked to stop every ball in the dirt and everyone of these is in the dirt. I belive when pitches li I he that are called no one takes the E.

OK unless you are the one scoring that is fine... what about the teams scorekeeper that is sitting between the dugout and the plate? Do you call out to her/him what pitch is being thrown and the location? Of course not. So then how is the scorekeeper to know?

 

[canyonjoe]

I have to disagree on balls hitting the dirt automatically being WP. Shouldn't this have the pitch called play into it. Pitcher has a pitch she commands well, say drop, crop that really move. Now ahead in count I'm calling one of those pitches and she knows I expect it slightly off the plate and no higher than bottom of knee. No if that is thrown as I want it should be a short hop pitch that a catcher wI'll hAve to dig 85% of the time aND wI'll result in some passed balls. Do you penilze the P for doing what you ask or put it the C who is being asked to stop every ball in the dirt and everyone of these is in the dirt. I belive when pitches li I he that are called no one takes the E.

If a runner advances a base you have to account for it one way or the other. It doesn't matter what you called. If you are going to throw inside you might hit batters if you want to throw pitches in the dirt with runners on base you take a risk if a WP. It would be the same if you had an infield with no range and went out and tried to induce a lot of ground balls. It would hurt the P. That's why you need to have good catchers.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Do you penilze the P for doing what you ask or put it the C who is being asked to stop every ball in the dirt and everyone of these is in the dirt.

Let's say you put on the steal sign. Girl gets thrown out. Should she be penalized for doing what she was told?

You're looking at it from a coach's point of view. Scorekeeping wasn't designed to help the coach evaluate players, even though it does provide some help in that regard.

The purpose of scorekeeping is of provide an objective, written account of the game using pre-defined terms and statistics. Scorekeepers aren't there to interpret or analyze the game, but rather to report and document it.

Therefore, it's not about blame and justice. It's just scorekeeping. "If this happens, that is called a WP. If that happens, that is called a PB.'' It is then up to coaches to decide how much value they place in each and every statistic the scorebook yields, IMO

 

[Sweet Lou]

Ok, my apologies. Any ball in the dirt is a WP. (And my daughter is a catcher.)

I agree with this and my DD is a pitcher.

 

[canyonjoe]

I look at scorekeeping like a financial statement. There are rules for how you account for things and it gives some information.

While it give you an overall impression of how you did, you need to add in other metrics to really drill down into how you are doing.

If I have 2 catchers and 1 has 10 PB and the other has 5 in the same number of innings can I assume the one with 5 is better?

The one with 10 might have blocked 100 would be WP with runners on 3rd while the other has me so afraid to call change ups. Scoring
doesn't really account for that. Do I want a SS with less errors who has no range verses one that will occasionally throw a ball away trying to
make a great play? Again if I just look at errors it's easy.

A P with a lot of wild pitches could mean she is terrible or it could mean she has crazy movement.

I really think that GC and Iscore will evolve from just a scorebook to really statistics. How hard would it be to add a Catcher block to a pitch. You see it in the major league
stats where they measure range of infielders. How about measuring scoops by 1B to really measure how good they are. You could give off the book errors on OF for misplays,etc. In the old days it would have been too time consuming to calculate, but we have it now.