What powers the barrel turn?

[FP26]

I'm guessing that you think the hands weren't/aren't used in the below gif(correct me if I'm wrong)

It does make for an interesting discussion. Do the hands move in order to deliver the barrel? Or are the hands moved by other actions? I don't think anyone debates that the scap (and the muscles associated with it) are used in the process. But I also believe the hands play an important role in the process. Some may argue that the hand movement in the Pujols video is controlled predominantly by the scap or serratus anterior. While I don't deny that is part of what is happening, I also believe that Pujols is starting to set direction at this point (not complete by any means, but starting...). That process requires the use of muscles outside of the scap area as well. To me it is all a matter of what body part you want to focus on.

 

[rdbass]

I don't think the hands are 'along for the ride'. I believe the body supports the hands.

 

[Howe]

OVERLAP:
The hands remain up as the elbow slots: The barrel transits into a “running start”. This is because the retracted scapula and the trapezius externally rotate the rear shoulder. The movement opposes the influence of the latissimus dorsi in rotating the shoulder internally and forward as the elbow is slotted. The sum of activity maximizes the stretch in the serratus anterior. The barrel turn we see is NOT mediated by the hands.

As the rest of you follow along, just know that there are some who continually cherry pick videos to try and make their point. They won't show you comparable swings - different pitch and location. They can't, because it won't fit their narrative.

Example A:


Probably one of the most consistent hitters ever.
Example B:

This far upstream is when the hand-path is executed. Bank on it!

Don't believe me? Here's a closer look:

 

[Howe]

COMPARE: Lack of overlap and a "running start" in the drill, and in real time swing. The hands are involved. The lack of scapular activity bypasses the "swearing in" transition.

Hmmm, I wonder what these guys focus on??? Is it the HANDS? of is it the SCAP? LOL



I can do this all day.

 

[FP26]

I don't think the hands are 'along for the ride'. I believe the body supports the hands.

I thought that is what I said... Lol!!

 

[FP26]

As the rest of you follow along, just know that there are some who continually cherry pick videos to try and make their point. They won't show you comparable swings - different pitch and location. They can't, because it won't fit their narrative.

Example A:


Probably one of the most consistent hitters ever.
Example B:

This far upstream is when the hand-path is executed. Bank on it!

Don't believe me? Here's a closer look:

These clips illustrate my thoughts very well. Is the Scap area involved? Yes, I think it is. But.... there is much more involved. And all those parts are working in coordination to assist the hands to arrive in the proper spot to deliver the barrel. So, yeah, what Rd said... Lol!

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I don't think the hands are 'along for the ride'. I believe the body supports the hands.

I thought that is what I said... Lol!!

I don't believe anyone is suggesting that the swing is not felt through the hands.

Give someone the task of picking up a cup of coffee from the kitchen counter and then ask them to quickly tell you what part of their body they used to pick up the cup of coffee. Many will say that they used their hand, despite that their body moved to support the goal.

The concern of coaches should be on building "educated hands" ... And educated hands require that the body move appropriately ... With a proper sequence. For many, learning such a sequence may require a focus beyond the hands, while in the process of building educated hands.

Said differently, there is benefit in learning the sequence of accomplished hitters.

 

[tjintx]

Is the body moving in a way as to NOT interfere with the focus of the hands OR are the hands moving in a way as to NOT interfere with the focus of the body?
I choose the former. The precision of the hands cannot be affected adversely by any body action or barrel path and timing break down. I believe this is why so many hitting instructors remove athleticism in hitters as they identify the body movements as a hindrance to the swing rather than a compliment. They don't know how to incorporate them together due to the overlapping requirements placed on the hitter. Good thread!

 

[rdbass]

I thought that is what I said... Lol!!

I was agreeing with you. I was 'piggy back' off of your thoughts. Directing my post towards Tbo and others reading along.

 

[Howe]

I guess my Fat Troll needs another beat-down? Let's trip him up with more video of hand path... Bwahahahah

Watch him. He's got no clue when this hitter's hand-path was executed.

I can do this all day! Dance for me Fatty.