Umps not knowing rules

[EdLovrich]

Smooth is best!

It is, we have agreed on that. But if you had to choose one over the other, rules knowledge or the soft skills? Which is more important?

 

[EdLovrich]

Since even the right call can and does get challenged.

When you say 'right' in this sentence, are you referring to right in judgment or right in rules application? Since we have been talking about rules knowledge, I presume you mean a coach who doesn't know the correct rule is asking about the rule itself. This also goes to the other part of your quote, whether or not I know how the strike zone is defined has little to do with whether or not I tell a catcher if I missed one.

 

[radness]

I have said, "Coach, if I saw it from your angle, I might have called it differently?

Let me ask you, if an umpire came to you and said, "Coach, I got that one wrong, flat out missed it." Would you want it to get changed? Or, are you going to be satisfied knowing it was wrong and that it is going to stay wrong and that is the end of it? What good is served by an umpire admitting he got a call flat out wrong other than stroking a coach's ego? (I realize that is inflammatory language, I use it on purpose because it has been stated that stroking our own egos is one of the reasons we get into this job in the first place. I just want to make sure we are all getting our egos taken care of)

As to what I say to catchers? I have told a catcher, "I sure would like to see that pitch again." Or, "Call that pitch again" I think most catchers are smart enough to read between the lines.

I like when umpires told me they may have missed a pitch because it lets me know they are 'trying' to have a consistent strike zone area.

 

[radness]

It is, we have agreed on that. But if you had to choose one over the other, rules knowledge or the soft skills? Which is more important?

Answered that and included an explanation.

 

[radness]

When you say 'right' in this sentence, are you referring to right in judgment or right in rules application? Since we have been talking about rules knowledge, I presume you mean a coach who doesn't know the correct rule is asking about the rule itself. This also goes to the other part of your quote, whether or not I know how the strike zone is defined has little to do with whether or not I tell a catcher if I missed one.

OY've presume too much. And tend to go off like a spider web. Doesnt matter ruling or application.
My posts were clear.
And
Simple.

Btw read you've been on dfp 6 weeks...welcome! Nice to have another chattererer

 

[EdLovrich]

Btw read you've been on dfp 6 weeks...welcome! Nice to have another chattererer

Thank you for the welcome, I appreciate a good discussion!

I know you said you feel that being approachable is better than being right. But, I feel there is a difference between being right in the sense of knowing the rule and being right in having correct judgment of a situation. For instance, I might be able to tell you exactly what happened when the other team's R1 ran over your F4 trying to field a grounder. My judgment is impeccable. Everyone in the park agrees on what happened. But, I tell you it is your fielder's responsibility to avoid the runner, because the ball has passed the pitcher. I am oh so sweet and listen to you calmly, explain to you exactly what I saw, listen to what you saw, agree to talk to my partner. End of the day the runner is still safe at 2B and the BR is safe on 1B.

So, there is a difference between being right about what happened and being right about the rule. Also, and I swear this is the last time I will ask it, are you truly telling me that the soft skills are MORE important than rules knowledge and if you had to choose 1 for an umpire to start with, it would be the soft skills?

 

[radness]

Perhaps i should have added
i am not bothered when umpires make a call that may be either wrong or in their judgement awkward. The times when people will roar up. Ya know...

Because i know from seeing balls and strikes being called that imo affect the game far more. See how the strike zone area varies per game. Sometimes per pitch!

imo from being a catcher,
There are far more instances each game on pitch calling that can affect the game over incedental rules oddities.
Even an oops on a play called out or safe. Happens less.

 

[marriard]

Unfortunetly what you suppose hypothetically is already invalidated by the amount of umpires who come up with incorrect rulings on the field.
Only to bluff there way badly through it.
With lousy people skills.
Tends to make it worse.

I know I can umpire a sport competently without the greatest knowledge of the rules... that is how everyone umpires their first game in any sport. It is no different than playing the sport - you don't wait until your swing is perfect before you play your first game... you get out there and build experience and knowledge. You have to start somewhere. There used to be the opportunity to build your umpire skills in rec... now you build in 10U-B and 12U-B travel

You cannot - and will not - know enough about the rules the first time out. Or for that matter ANY time out. There is always more to learn. Even without rule changes, you continue to learn new things all the time as players and teams come up with new ways and new situations you have not seen before or have not been addressed in the rule book directly.

@EdLovrich asked which of soft skills or rule knowledge would be more beneficial for a starting umpire. And my answer is always going to be soft skills - because we can build rule knowledge MUCH easier if they are willing to learn. Soft skills/game management - not only is this MUCH harder to teach (to a point where most umpires clinics barely touch them), but some people just don't have them and never will.

Incorrect rulings... well that depends on what you consider an incorrect ruling. If I miss seeing something, then I might call it wrong, and if my partner didn't see it either - it is going to stay wrong. Is that an incorrect ruling? Not in my mind - I just didn't see it, neither did my partner and we didn't make something up pretending we did. If I was in the right position I can live with that. If I did everything I could to be in the right position, I can live with that as well. If I was lazy or not looking where I was supposed to or just missed it; that is on me and I beat myself up about it.

Not seeing a call happens. - ideally, there is meant to be minimally 3 umpires - but no one is paying for that every game (I do a surprising amount of college games with just 2 umpires). That bang-bang play at 1st base I have to make across the field while standing near 3rd base because there is a runner on third - not a lot of fun.

If I get a rule application wrong, that is different. The more complex the rule is, the rarer the situation, you do your best to apply the rules to the situation. When you start, you should at least have the level of rules knowledge to handle the common ones we see - fouls on double hits on the bat, in/out of the box, tag ups and appeals, common obstruction and interference, dead ball awards, etc, etc. The more complicated ones may have to be learned through experience or more education or watching others and so on... but it takes time. I have been umpiring softball for a while now - I can handle WAY more situations correctly than I could on day one.

Even so, in this years NCAA umpires exam there were at least 20 scenario questions that I was not confident what the right call was when I read them - it forced me deeper into the rules and case books - if I saw that situation or a similar one I am confident I would get it right.
It is not just knowing the rules, it is knowing how those rules are meant to be applied.

@RADcatcher mentioned calling balls and strikes affecting more of the game than a single missed call. I agree. Got to work hard at that as well - it is a skill and I was lucky to have good mentors and instructors. I got a tip from another official this year that I feel has made my zone better this year than in the past. Something he learned at a clinic I couldn't get to...

Just like good players and coaches.... always learning.

 

[radness]

I know I can umpire a sport competently without the greatest knowledge of the rules... that is how everyone umpires their first game in any sport. It is no different than playing the sport - you don't wait until your swing is perfect before you play your first game... you get out there and build experience and knowledge. You have to start somewhere. Their used to be the opportunity to build your umpire skills in rec... now you build in 10U-B and 12U-B travel

You cannot - and will not - know enough about the rules the first time out. Or for that matter ANY time out. There is always moe to learn. Even without rule changes, you continue to learn new things all the time as players and teams come up with new ways and new situations you have not seen before or have not been addressed in the rule book directly.

@EdLovrich asked which of soft skills or rule knowledge would be more beneficial for a starting umpire. And my answer is always going to be soft skills - because we can build rule knowledge MUCH easier if they are willing to learn. Soft skills/game management - not only is this MUCH harder to teach (to a point where most umpires clinics barely touch them), but some people just don't have them and never will.

Incorrect rulings... well that depends on what you consider an incorrect ruling. If I miss seeing something, then I might call it wrong, and if my partner didn't see it either - it is going to stay wrong. Is that an incorrect ruling? Not in my mind - I just didn't see it, neither did my partner and we didn't make something pretending up we did. If I was in the right position I can live with that. If I did everything I could to be in the right position, I can live with that as well. If I was lazy or not looking where I was supposed to or just missed it; that is on me and I beat myself up about it.

Not seeing a call happens. - ideally there is meant to be minimally 3 umpires - but no one is paying for that every game (I do a surprising amount of college games with just 2 umpires). That bang-bang play at 1st base I have to make across the field while standing near 3rd base because there is a runner on third - not a lot of fun.

If I get a rule application wrong, that is different. The more complex the rule is, the rarer the situation, you do your best to apply the rules to the situation. When you start, you should at least have the level of rules knowledge to handle the common ones we see - fouls on double hits on the bat, in/out of the box, tag ups and appeals, common obstruction and interference, dead ball awards, etc, etc. The more complicated ones may have to be learned through experience or more education or watching others and so on... but it takes time. I have been umpiring softball for a while now - I can handle WAY more situations correctly than I could on day one.

Even so, in this years NCAA umpires exam there were at least 20 scenario questions that I was not confident what the right call was when I read them - it forced me deeper into the rules and case books - if I saw that situation or a similar one I am confident I would get it right.
It is not just knowing the rules, it is knowing how those rules are meant to be applied.

@RADcatcher mentioned calling balls and strikes affecting more of the game than a single missed call. I agree. Got to work hard at that as well - it is a skill and I was lucky to have good mentors and instructors. I got a tip from another official this year that I feel has made my zone better this year than in the past. Something he learned at a clinic I couldn't get to...

Just like good players and coaches.... always learning.

Good read again @marriard!

Your post adds more fantastic reasonings to not get ruffled at errant odd calls!

 

[EdLovrich]

@EdLovrich asked which of soft skills or rule knowledge would be more beneficial for a starting umpire. And my answer is always going to be soft skills - because we can build rule knowledge MUCH easier if they are willing to learn. Soft skills/game management - not only is this MUCH harder to teach (to a point where most umpires clinics barely touch them), but some people just don't have them and never will.

I agree that learning rules is always going to be easier than learning the soft skills, soft skills come from game experience for the most part. How to keep a game moving, preventive umpiring, situation handling. Maybe it is because it has been too long since I was a young umpire, but I still say that knowing the rules is more important for a new umpire. Being able to STAY OUT of more of the situations as you build game experience will serve both the umpire and the game better than being able to GET OUT of them. As a veteran official, I am much less irritated by having to step in to help get a HC away from a rookie partner because the rookie didn't know how to deal with the situation than I am by having the rookie be able to settle the HC down and accept his misapplied rule while I have to sit back knowing that the rule was misapplied to start with. Can I set the rookie straight more easily about the misapplied rule in the post-game? Sure, but those two teams will never get that game back, and we as a crew certainly affected it.

I think this is a topic that could be (has been) talked six ways from the center and both sides will have valid arguments. Not sure if mine have been persuasive, but I hope they have at least been informative.