I think that we need to start making a list of good instructors, that understand IR.
The right pitching coach
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I couldn't agree more!
halskinner
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Amy,
what you are suggesting falls into the 'Certification' realm. Who do you propose to sit in judgement over who to decide if that person knows and understands IR? It will not work. Certifying pitching coaches was kicked around the old Fastpitch Forum back in, I think, 2001. The same issue came up; Who will decide if what you know is acceptable or not?
Too many pitching styles, too many wind ups, etc.
Am I going to sit in judgement over what you know? Nope, you surely know some things I do not. Are you going to sit in judgement over me? Nope, for the exact same reason.
Last I heard, there were 12.5 million FP softball players in the US. God only knows how many pitching nstructors in the US. Who is going to organize all of them and make sure they are all on the same 'Page', when it comes to IR?
what you are suggesting falls into the 'Certification' realm. Who do you propose to sit in judgement over who to decide if that person knows and understands IR? It will not work. Certifying pitching coaches was kicked around the old Fastpitch Forum back in, I think, 2001. The same issue came up; Who will decide if what you know is acceptable or not?
Too many pitching styles, too many wind ups, etc.
Am I going to sit in judgement over what you know? Nope, you surely know some things I do not. Are you going to sit in judgement over me? Nope, for the exact same reason.
Last I heard, there were 12.5 million FP softball players in the US. God only knows how many pitching nstructors in the US. Who is going to organize all of them and make sure they are all on the same 'Page', when it comes to IR?
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Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
A DFP sticky titled "PCs who DON'T teach HE" would be a fairly non-controversial start IMO
There are stylistic attributes to pitching and absolutes. But the fact remains very few instructors understand the physiology of the pitching motion. Many young girls are taught forced motions; motions un-natural to the way the body is designed to move. To me, I/R is how the body is designed to move and this is coached out of girls until they hit a plateau then, they find a high level coach who spends the next few years recreating new muscle memory in hopes to bring back I/R.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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Bad 'muscle memory' is an excuse that many an instructor will use to justify poor teaching ability.
I can teach you a curveball that, thrown very slowly, has a release point that is the height of your ear and a foot to the right ands out in front of your right shoulder (RH pitcher). It is also released with the hand in the 'Handshake' position.
Does that make me a low level instructor because I can teach something different?
I hope you were joking about an inmstructor taking two years to correct something. Run away from that instructor. But if he takes two years but maintains IR, that is good?? That is not a high level instructor in anybody's book.
I can teach you a curveball that, thrown very slowly, has a release point that is the height of your ear and a foot to the right ands out in front of your right shoulder (RH pitcher). It is also released with the hand in the 'Handshake' position.
Does that make me a low level instructor because I can teach something different?
I hope you were joking about an inmstructor taking two years to correct something. Run away from that instructor. But if he takes two years but maintains IR, that is good?? That is not a high level instructor in anybody's book.
This isn't about your instructing ability Hal.
Muscle Memory isn't really "muscle" memory. It's the brains ability to remember what muscles are needed to perform a specific action on a subconscious level; meaning not much cognitive thought goes into the movement you just do it. On average it takes 7 times to create a habit. Any idea how many repetitions are involved to break that habit? If you have a pitcher who has been pitching her entire career with minimal to no I/R it will take more than 1 lesson to fix it. She will have to create new "muscle" memory and will at times go back to her other way of pitching until what she has learned becomes comfortable and natural. Pitching isn't just one motion. It is a series of motions combined together to appear as one motion, thus taking it longer to create a new "habit" or behavior. Each individual has their own learning curve. It could take one pitcher 75 reps and another 1,000 reps. Also, this "muscle memory" is tied to emotion. The greater the emotion associated with the event the deeper the memory is created. Ever wonder why so many woman can remember oh so many of those bad things?
LOL
For example: My daughter takes lesson from someone who teaches very differently than any other pitching instructor she has had. Why does he? I believe it is because he truly understands the physiology of the pitching motion and how to get the most out of it. We don't spend our hour with analogies such as "feed the giant" (face the ball away from you), "smack the midget" (wrist snap) and "flip the catcher off" (drive the elbow up). Her warm up is different than any other pitcher on her team. She gets scrutinized for not doing wrist snaps... Does this make her current instructor a poor one? NO! But what defines a good instructor and a not so good instructor is the lack of knowledge on how to use your body effectively to get the most from it. I was one of the lucky ones. I was able to find an incredible pitching instructor while my daughter is still young and hasn't been pitching for years and years feeding giants, smacking midgets and flipping off every catcher behind the plate. Lets not forget the wealth of knowledge on this site.
Let's use batting as an example. Many styles to it, but there are also absolutes if you want to hit the ball well. When a student is taking lessons to fix her swing she must go home and SWING!, practice. Why? Because the brain needs to memorize the new motion so that she can perform it without a conscious effort. Recently read an article on MLB players swings. Most were saying the did x,y,z. But when their swings were analyzed they were doing the complete opposite. This is the same issue with pitching.
So sorry to hijack the orginal poster's thread.
Muscle Memory isn't really "muscle" memory. It's the brains ability to remember what muscles are needed to perform a specific action on a subconscious level; meaning not much cognitive thought goes into the movement you just do it. On average it takes 7 times to create a habit. Any idea how many repetitions are involved to break that habit? If you have a pitcher who has been pitching her entire career with minimal to no I/R it will take more than 1 lesson to fix it. She will have to create new "muscle" memory and will at times go back to her other way of pitching until what she has learned becomes comfortable and natural. Pitching isn't just one motion. It is a series of motions combined together to appear as one motion, thus taking it longer to create a new "habit" or behavior. Each individual has their own learning curve. It could take one pitcher 75 reps and another 1,000 reps. Also, this "muscle memory" is tied to emotion. The greater the emotion associated with the event the deeper the memory is created. Ever wonder why so many woman can remember oh so many of those bad things?
LOL For example: My daughter takes lesson from someone who teaches very differently than any other pitching instructor she has had. Why does he? I believe it is because he truly understands the physiology of the pitching motion and how to get the most out of it. We don't spend our hour with analogies such as "feed the giant" (face the ball away from you), "smack the midget" (wrist snap) and "flip the catcher off" (drive the elbow up). Her warm up is different than any other pitcher on her team. She gets scrutinized for not doing wrist snaps... Does this make her current instructor a poor one? NO! But what defines a good instructor and a not so good instructor is the lack of knowledge on how to use your body effectively to get the most from it. I was one of the lucky ones. I was able to find an incredible pitching instructor while my daughter is still young and hasn't been pitching for years and years feeding giants, smacking midgets and flipping off every catcher behind the plate. Lets not forget the wealth of knowledge on this site.
Let's use batting as an example. Many styles to it, but there are also absolutes if you want to hit the ball well. When a student is taking lessons to fix her swing she must go home and SWING!, practice. Why? Because the brain needs to memorize the new motion so that she can perform it without a conscious effort. Recently read an article on MLB players swings. Most were saying the did x,y,z. But when their swings were analyzed they were doing the complete opposite. This is the same issue with pitching.
So sorry to hijack the orginal poster's thread.
halskinner
Banned
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You cannot compare baseball with soiftball when it comes to pitching. As far as 'Pitching Absolutes' go, it's a catch phrasde, no such thing, way too many variables in pitching mechanics. The only absolute are the regulations them selves.
You are correct about muscle memory. They dont think, they just do what they are told to do. I pointed that out a few years when I told people to take the weight away from the ball and practice with a wiffle ball if the pitcher was throwing high. The weight of the ball does the thinking for throwers. Take away that weight, use a wiffgle ball and put the ball on the fingewrtips and NOT back in the palm anmd the pitcher has NO CHOICE but to think about the role of the fingers in the pitch. People responded and said I was nuts, it would take weeks to change the 'muscle memory', no, took 5 or 6 pitches and it was fixed. Actually started pitching vs throwing.
You are correct about muscle memory. They dont think, they just do what they are told to do. I pointed that out a few years when I told people to take the weight away from the ball and practice with a wiffle ball if the pitcher was throwing high. The weight of the ball does the thinking for throwers. Take away that weight, use a wiffgle ball and put the ball on the fingewrtips and NOT back in the palm anmd the pitcher has NO CHOICE but to think about the role of the fingers in the pitch. People responded and said I was nuts, it would take weeks to change the 'muscle memory', no, took 5 or 6 pitches and it was fixed. Actually started pitching vs throwing.
Hal, unless it was a thread I missed, no one had a problem with the idea of using a wiffle ball. I liked it!
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/8910-fixing-hello-elbow-wiffle-balls.html
