The Commish needs help

[Momo'sDad]

In less the rules have changed. You can not break out by age for all stars in little league. If a girl plays up the whole season she can not go down for all stars and can not play up.

ASA is the same, at least where we are. Even in a small league that's light on talent, if a girl plays up because it's just a better all-around experience for her and for her league, then she's got to play on the older age division All-star team, assuming she makes it.

 

[marriard]

Great problem to have - much better than hoping a few more girls sign up for a 3rd team in a division.

I have had the honor/burden of running a league almost this size and there a few things you need to consider.

- It's rec... so the life of your league is the newer/less skilled players. You screw them over, then this problem will rapidly disappear. It can't suck for these girls over the more skilled players. The more skilled players have somewhere they can go if rec doesn't do it for them - they can go to travel.
- You are not going to make everyone happy. Not even close.
- 'friend' requests are not guaranteed. Siblings maybe (unless they need to be in separate divisions). We had them in draft notes and honored where we could, but it was about 75% most years
- Assign a 'real' draft round to coaches kids and give head coaches just one assistant (who also gets a real draft rating). They want another assistant they can draft who they want.
- Changing how you do things for one kid, or one coach or even a small group is a fools game and needs to be avoided at all costs. Be prepared to let a few people walk to make it better for the majority. The 'we will walk' threat is 90% of the time a bluff to see if they can push you around and when it is not a bluff - well you are better off without them anyway.
- The other bluff you will get is 'little Suzie wont play unless she plays for coach X or with player Y or ....'. Then I guess little Suzie wont be playing and wont be getting a refund either since she is voluntarily not doing it. Or Coach X better draft her when he has the chance.

I am assuming this is not a Little League based league - because in 12U you have to follow their very specific rules on making teams. If it is, read your manual - it is very specific and you don't have a lot of choice.

This is how we did it...

We identified ALL the second (older) year players who we thought could play or had some talent or had played at least 2 seasons or were physically imposing. For every 8 or 9 of these we made a team, which coaches could then top up with talented first year younger players. We called this is 'Blue' division. We had a 2 section draft - all the older girls first with a few first year strong pitchers included, and then the last 3-4 spots was an open draft of the first year players. This gives your skilled teams and the best younger players get to play at the right level.

All the remaining players - second year players with no experience, no talent (sorry), or limited skills plus all the remaining first year players and made team from these for the 'yellow' division. This generally kept enough skills in the 'green' division with the borderline 'blue' division first year players. It worked because it was easier to justify the younger girls weren't playing in the 'stronger' division since they are younger (plus we made a pool of the borderline players to use when needed and even moved a few 'up' due to injuries/assessment mistake/etc). The games in this division were not awful as there was still some young skill (who got a chance to be the best in the division), and also not dominated by the advanced players - because they aren't playing in the division.

Was it perfect? Of course not, but it does produce pretty fair teams (not even - even is impossible)and divisions which is really the best you can ever hopeful in rec.

 

[PA SB Dad]

A few years ago this is what was done on the baseball side: all the the boys in the division went to tryouts and were ranked from top to bottom (ie best to worst). Then, based on the number of teams and number of players per team, the kids were ranked as 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, 3rd rounders, etc. For example, 8 teams with 12 players each, the top 8 ranked players were first rounders, the next 8 were second rounders, and so on. Siblings were usually ranked in different rounds, so if you took one kid, you automatically got the sibling in that other round. Each coach took turns picking a player from each round, and the coaches draft order in each round rotated. The resulting teams ended up in a three way tie for first place and two teams tied for fourth place. It was the first time we had seen parity like that. It requires a great deal of planning, but it can be done.

On the girls side, I did things differently because the talent level was just not the same as it was for baseball (we lose our best girls to TB). During registration, the girls were allowed to give the names of two or three players with whom they wanted to be on the same team. We had a draft where each coach drafted 6 players and was allowed to "protect" 5 of them. Once they protected 5, I took the list of friend requests and filled the rest of the rosters as best I could. The reason I did it this way was that most teams really only have 4 or 5 good players, and the other players are generally interchangeable. Since they were interchangeable, I figured why not let the girls have at least one friend on the team. We did not really have parity, but overall I thought the season was a success.

 

[nicelag]

Protecting 5 is great if you are at the top of the gene pool, but those coming up from the lower divisions will get hammered. Been there done that. That's why our league lets the coach freeze one player, his (or hers), and all of the coaches and league reps present give her a draft slot based on her tryout. If you want an assistant draft him or her. As stated earlier there have been power plays to get on other teams. Some have walked when they didn't get their way, but when told that they can walk but they aren't getting their refund very few actually leave.

Now, our league does allow trades after the completion of the draft. However, the trades have to be done at the draft table in front of all of the coaches, the player agent and division commissioner. The trade then has to be approved by all within reason.

The thing you need to remember is that once you start making exceptions you set the precedent and there is no end. As long as you operate with the interest of fairness in mind, which is very difficult for some, everything usually works out.

Good luck

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

No, no, and no.

Your league is huge. I would encourage the most talented 12u players' families to move to TB, because the disparity between an A-level player and a true rec player is too great. You're not punishing the highly skilled player by kicking them out of rec. Instead, you're doing your job as a softball mentor to help advance them along the path of competitive softball.

If, however, all are committed to remaining in rec, then for the good of the game, you make every effort to balance out the teams and in 12u, that begins with pitching, with catchers a very close 2nd. If that means that the 2 best pitchers don't get to be on the same team in order to dominate their town league, so be it.

I agree with having the pitchers rated if you're doing a blind draft. If you've got 16 circle-ready pitchers, and then 20 in the "developmental" pool, you'll want to make sure each team gets 1 from the former group before anyone has 2. If a coach's kid is an upper-level pitcher, then they've got to take another position - which could be a developmental pitcher - with their 1st selection in the (pitcher) draft.

I agree in concept, though encouraging girls to leave the league might be frowned upon by the board lol!

We've been doing it a certain way for so long that I'm afraid of making too many changes at one time. Maybe we'll try the blind draft without subdivisions? I'm still concerned about talent disparity within the teams, and TBH, if we have 3 or 4 "circle ready" girls, I'll be impressed. We just have not spent time preparing the girls because we haven't developed the coaches.

I might hold some pitching and catching clinics - and require the coaches to attend. Not sure how we're going to attack that yet.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I guess in theory, a blind draw/draft would be the most fair overall. But if it was me, and I've been there, I wouldn't do it over all age groups.........effective now. Why?

We had the "protection" ( we called it kept core ) of 50% of last year's team roster. That meant if I wanted to keep 5-6 players, and they/parents wanted to return to my team, I could lock them in. Now the advantage in my mind is, I've put in the time to "try" to develop that core to the best of my ability. I feel I can teach much much more with the same group over a few seasons..........rather than a bunch of new faces every year.

After the "kept core" per team was established, the rest went into a regular draft. The league winning coach from last year got first round pick, then the 2nd place picked, then 3rd, so on down the line. Repeated that until all girls were picked.

Now what this does is establish motivation for coaches to develop the players more, knowing you can keep and continue their development next season.........even some during the off season that want to. Also the incentive to place high in the league, for early draft picks next year.

Some use to say that wasn't fair. Why is that one team dominating each year? Well, it's because we/they practice 3 -4 times the amount of the other teams, it's a group who actually want to learn, to push themselves, to be competitive. So you're mad we're winning after putting in all the extra time, but you want my girls to play for your team next year by changing the rules? Really?

I'm trying to say this without the brag BS, but the old 50% rule developed some top notch talent in that rec league. Many went on to play college, some still are playing college. That rec org made it to the state playoffs every year I was there, and had been sending teams before I got there, our team came in 2nd place in the org World Series 2006 ( like LL setup, gotta keep winning to advance district/region/state/WS ) Now those were the All-stars, but also in 2006 the director changed the draft where only 2 coaches ( HC AC ) could keep their kids, the rest went into the draft. It absolutely killed the rec program. All the incentive for players and coaches alike died. That league, still running today, hasn't made it out of district play since 2006, in any age group.

Finding a good coach in rec is hard, finding players with some good raw talent is even harder. If you can pair those two rarities together, for a few seasons, that's where opportunities arise. That's where it gives those select girls a chance for bigger things. High school, travel, college. Every college player I know, men or women, started off getting their best foundational development from a good rec coach.

I'm not trying to bully my beliefs on you, just a word of caution from experience on changing things too fast. Because of that rule change in 06', EVERY good player left the next year across all age groups, and now anyone showing a glimpse of talent are swooped away into travel pre 10u. And I'm not saying that is bad, but on the other side of the coin, the rec league looses good experienced coaches to run the everyday operations too.

Hope this makes sense, I gotta grab some lunch.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

As far as I know (and I will know more later) all of our coaches are bucket dads. That's something else I want to address at some point. I know most coaches leave after DD stops playing or ages out or moves to TB, but I'd like to either try to keep them on, or at least turn them into coach-mentors.

Our rec teams don't compete outside of the league, with the exception of our AS teams, and those play in a single "season/tournament" with a neighbor league. It's about the least competitive league you can imagine, which is a large reason we have so many girls IMO. I have a vision of a slightly elevated level of play overall, and of adding a "next level" between our current rec and our TB at 12U. If it works for 12U, I'd like to do the same with our 10U, which has even more players/teams.

 

[coachbob]

ASA is the same, at least where we are. Even in a small league that's light on talent, if a girl plays up because it's just a better all-around experience for her and for her league, then she's got to play on the older age division All-star team, assuming she makes it.

That is not true in Socal ASA. Girls can play back down in all stars.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

OK, small steps.

Started with an email this morning to the parents to please login to their accounts and indicate if their DD pitches, wants to pitch, is not interested, and same for catching. Got 2 emails pissing and moaning about "breaking up teams" and "making teams based on skill" and 1 email thanking me.

Just a snippet:

"I am very concerned. It's Rec league...These girls want to play with their friends. I know mine and her friends have been talking about playing together and they are very excited about that. Save the skill levels for lightening [sic] league, that's what tryouts are for. Rec league is supposed to be fun with your friends and learn some skills along the way. I respectfully request the coaches' & girls' requests to play together be honored. In my opinion, providing coaches with additional training is more important to leveling out the playing field."

As commish I can't tell her what I really think, more's the pity.

Anyway, tiny change, already hearing from parents. Yay me.

 

[dbronstein]

You're never going to make everybody happy obviously. It is rec ball, and as you said in a previous post "It's about the least competitive league you can imagine". My guess is most of the parents would probably prefer to lean to the side of groups of friends playing together than trying to make the most even teams possible. I'd say try to spread the pitchers and catchers around as best you can while honoring the sibling, coach and friend requests.

The best thing as has been mentioned, is tackle it from the standpoint of holding clinics for players and coaches. My DD plays rec and what I've seen is a lot of the coaches don't know how to teach pitching. So have a few clinics to get everyone started on the right path, and then it's a matter of practice. You're not going to develop them into TB pitchers, but for rec, you just want the girls to be able to throw strikes. Speed and the different pitches aren't that important. My experience is girls who are willing to put in the effort, even just 50 pitches every day on their own, become decent rec pitchers.