Taking it easy on weaker teams?

[MJs Dad]

At what point in a game do you decide that it's time to "call off the dogs" against a weaker team? We had a situation this weekend that my DD's 12U team scored 13 runs in the first inning without getting a single out. The umpire suggested that we "call off the dogs" or else.
How do you do that with out embarrassing the other team and without messing up your teams frame of mind to be aggressive?

 

[Mark H]

Well there's a long list. Some of which some will argue it's insulting to back off that far.

Don't steal.
Don't go on passed balls.
Pitch your last string pitcher
Move your defense around
Don't gripe when the ump opens up the zone for their pitcher.
Others will add to this list but, at some point, you just run out of options.
If it gets ugly enough you can start leaving the base early for the out though some will argue this is demeaning to the other team. If you do it, don't make it obvious. Again, at some point, you run out of options and the other team doesn't want to stand out there for an hour.

 

[fortheloveofsoftball12]

There was this other question about running up the score but as a high school softball player I understand that stats are very important to players and their parents so even though they might be beating the snot out of someone their goal is to steal have a perfect fielding average and get triples, homeruns, doubles, singles, any hits at all to keep thier batting average where they want it. Me, persoally when we play a team that we are beating very bad I begin taking risks like stealing trying to double steal so I can see my abilities and not have to be in my mind "I wonder if I could have made it to 3rd" so when we play a better team I know what I'm capable of doing.

 

[Mark H]

I'd suggest some people would consider that poor form. I certainly would. Stealing on a poor team tells you nothing about what you can do against a good team. How would you feel about a team if they continued to steal and run up the score on you when you were down by fifteen runs or some such?

 

[mad hornet]

There was this other question about running up the score but as a high school softball player I understand that stats are very important to players and their parents so even though they might be beating the snot out of someone their goal is to steal have a perfect fielding average and get triples, homeruns, doubles, singles, any hits at all to keep thier batting average where they want it. Me, persoally when we play a team that we are beating very bad I begin taking risks like stealing trying to double steal so I can see my abilities and not have to be in my mind "I wonder if I could have made it to 3rd" so when we play a better team I know what I'm capable of doing.

When I was 15 I was playing in a Babe Ruth baseball game in Center Field. I had just pitched a complete game the night before and our whole team was having an off day even though we were normally pretty good. The other team has taken a sizeable lead and decided with a 12 run lead they should "practice" stealing and bunting on us.

It was the 7th inning and I was fuming so I hollered at my coach to put me in to pitch (regardless of rest). He did and with my first pitch I reached back with everything I had and drilled their next batter in the hip. Then I struck out the side.

I could be wrong, but there may be pitchers on the girl's side who would react similarly. Something to consider next time you want to double steal on a team you're beating the snot out of.

 

[MJs Dad]

It sounds like this topic brings up some pretty deep emotions. You can't blame the players if their coaches are encouaging them to run up the score and behave that way. We as parents and coaches put so much importance on stats that I could understand why a young lady would see this situation as an oppurtunity to pad her stats a little. I don't agree with it but I understand.

My intented question was on how to keep a good team from that losing that agressive instinct and still show good sportsmanship with out embarasing the other team.

I've never seen a situation in a travel tournament as bad as this before. These young ladys were so out of their leauge that I blame the director for letting them play in a bracket above their ability! It's wasn't fair to them or to our girls. What responsibility does the director have?

 

[mudbug]

My son played for a pretty good baseball team a few yrs back at 12U. They were winning a game 14-0 in the third inning, but inning had to be complete to call run rule. So the coach backs off, takes out the starting pitcher and puts his own son in to pitch to give him some experience, who is only 10 but is playing up because his dad is coaching this team. (My son was also 10 and playing up, but he was as good as the 12yr olds, better than about half.)

Anyway, the final score of that game was 15-14. We lost. Yes, the coach left his son in too long, but by the time he pulled him they had 8 and the bases loaded, they proceeded to rally from there then time expired. We played horribly too at that point, everything went wrong.

Lesson in there somewhere I think. We were clearly a better team with the A game on.

Watched a tourney past summer where a very weak team beat a very good team. Got a good first inning with a couple hits, scored 5 runs and held on to win 5-4. The good team had an off day. If they played a dozen more times the good team would have won every time, probably by a large margin. Point is, it can happen, at any time, just string a few hits together with a walk or two and 5-6 runs can appear.

 

[MJs Dad]

Point taken.

 

[fortheloveofsoftball12]

I'd suggest some people would consider that poor form. I certainly would. Stealing on a poor team tells you nothing about what you can do against a good team. How would you feel about a team if they continued to steal and run up the score on you when you were down by fifteen runs or some such?

I knew someone was going to ask this I guess this doesn't account for everywhere but in the region I play what you would call "weak" teams have very good defense! Why people would describe them as weak teams is because in the region I play not many girls can get base hits.(so they don't win and are ranked low) But many of them have had perfect fielding percentages before they've played us(and they have high throwing velocities, but we just have good hitters that can find holes), so I'm not counting a weak team out in being able to get me out on a steal.
Our coach tells us to get out there a play hard every single time, but if we were in a 15 run lead in the 3rd inning I would doubt our coach would tell us to continue playing hard because of that 5th inning rule.(up by 7 game over)

 

[JoeA1010]

Coaches who have been around and who have played softball or baseball usually understand the unwritten rules here. First, you have to be able to discern the difference between a competitive game and a game where the losing team has no chance to come back.

Once you have the latter and a comfortable lead, it's time to stop stealing bases, bunting, taking chances on bases, attempting pickoffs and perhaps other things I'm not thinking about. You still play the game hard, you just don't rub it in by taking advantage of the other team's inabilities.

Whether one agrees with all of this or not, many of us believe in these unwritten rules. These are customs that developed in baseball that many of us believe also apply in softball since the games are so similar. We don't walk around in society giving people the middle finger. When we run the score up on opponents, it's like giving them the middle finger.

The tough thing can be figuring out exactly when it's time to call off the dogs, especially with mercy rules in place. I was on both ends of it this past spring. We had a team beating us 14-1 and pulled a double steal, then squeeze bunted after that. We had no history whatsoever with the team, so there was no retaliation involved for some past transgression. Needless to say, my coaching staff and I were hot. It was a non-league game, so that team will not be on our schedule any longer. On the other hand, I had a league coach mad at me during a game. It was the second game of a doubleheader and we were up 9-1 in the top of the fourth inning and I had a player steal second. A bit later in the inning we were up 11-1 and I waved a runner home from second on a base hit to left-center. The other team was in the third-base dugout and the coach let me know she wasn't happy with those two moves and it was time to call off the dogs.

I explained to her later that I was trying to make sure we would win the game in five innings. We had only two pitchers on our staff, both pitching with injuries in cold weather, and I wanted to try to save a couple of innings for the one pitching that game. We had played two games against the same team the day before and won twice, but both games were competitive (I think we won by 5 and by 2). The inning kept going and it was eventually 15-1, at which point I eyeballed the base ump and then our runner at second. Being an experienced college umpire, he knew what I meant and called the runner out for leaving early even though she didn't leave early and didn't know I had requested the call.