slingshot speed

[CoachFP]

Screwball, I said that the slingshot is slower than windmill, not by a whole lot, but certainly noticeable. I have played against slingshotters and used to see a fair number of them. I know several men that were playing "Open" modified fastpitch a few years back and their speed doing slingshot was slower than their windmill but still very fast. I also know from personal experience that I can throw harder windmill than slingshot. It makes sense that you can anyway.

 

[tojo]

Tojo:

I disagree. I have Joyce's book (Unfortunately not all pages are about pitching, and we were not big talkers about it, and no, there is no video from our time, maybe from the 90s). But yes the slingshot creates a whip.

Having done both, slingshot velocity was faster, but you can't leap it. The extra distance and quickness of the leap and drag evens out the advantage. The windmill also gives you more time to get in position for spin.

Lastly, players wanted to pitch more quickly to get base stealers out (leap is quicker).

Joyce is shown in numerous photos with an 'across the body follow through' and says she wants them all to look the same. She struck out major leaguers and played on the most dominant team, the Brakettes who discovered her. She had a rise curve with a reduced finger grip. You can't push that. She was the role model, this book was read then.

The speeds led to changes in the ball and bat. Not just one pitcher would cause this. The pushing was not done by any top-level pitchers from HS to college.

Joyce's ball was said to approximate an 118 mph baseball not be 118. I did hear about a man at the Pan Am games who was clocked at 104, but again I think that is an approximation. Joyce started at 38 feet and finished at 40, while men were at 46.

I was thinking about HS, and who was all-county. I had hard time remembering (it was not me), because three slingshot pitchers (only one windmilled then) were clocked in the high 50s. I am not sure what type of guns were used. Games were 2-1 and 1-0 all the time.

The ball was white then and changed to optic yellow. So I think you have history a little wrong.

Screwball, I have the tape and will be glad to let you borrow it if you wish as long as you return it. It is hilarious by today's standards.PM your address and I will ship it to you. What part of what I said do you disagree?

 

[curiousgeorge]

CoachFP, I remember reading a Hillhouse article where he talked about modified pitch. There are 2 kinds: Slingshot and bowling style. The overall point of his article was about the reason the slingshot modified was in existence was because a lot of people didn't want to play the windmill game. The obvious reference was that slingshot pitchers were not as good as windmill.

 

[curiousgeorge]

It was not modified pitch. The modified pitchers use less of an upswing in their slingshot from what I can see. And by playing modified fastpitch, those are not the top pitchers.

There is less momentum from the windmill because you don't close the hips like we did. Even without that, there is pendulum motion to the slingshot not involving turning the hand, which creates more and immediate down momentum, as well, that times better with a step style. On the bad side, it is hard to get your hand turned around to spin the ball slingshot except for the rise and the peel screw. You just don't come down the circle as fast with the windmill.

You can leap with a short slingshot, but you just cannot do it without awkwardness, with the long one we used to do. The long one is probably still illegal in modified fastpitch, at least that is what I remember without reading a rulebook. I was told I could not use my full slingshot there so I never played it.

I had to switch to windmill to keep open longer and not keep injuring my upper back/shoulder. Or else it would have needed surgery.

**** TSK TSK...Play nice. Sluggers***

MANY of the top men's fastpitch throwers have tried their hand in the modified game. Not because they like it better but because in the men's game, pitchers (and players) get paid money. In some cases, A LOT of money.
***
Oh my, can't we all just get along? Sluggers***

 

[tojo]

That pitchers concentrated on strikes and placed or pushed the ball. There were more walks then than hits actually. Not that it was a walkfest, but people just could not hit the ball with the bats then and many watched pitches all the time in hopes to get hit or on base and it worked often better than trying to get a hit. Actually more pitchers threw it down the middle knowing that no one could hit. Pitchers HAVE TO place the ball better now, throughout the ages and experience levels.

Screwball, in my prior post I said pitchers tried to throw strikes and placed and pushed the ball. I did not say they concentrated on strikes. I agree there were more walks and batters were not as skilled as today's batters. You and I have a different opinion on the term "place". My opinion of placing the ball is similar to the "bowler style pitcher" that leans and guides the ball towards the target,albeit it may not end up being a strike. I would refer to pitchers today as hitting thier spots rather than placing the ball. I got your PM and understand why you don't want me to send it. I thought you may get a laugh out of it.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

fastpitch tv segment with Joan Joyce explaining the sling-shot and figure 8 styles of pitching. A couple of observations:

- she claims you can pitch faster using sling-shot than windmilling?;
- she states that initially the hips are more open using sling-shot?;
- you can get better spin and velocity on the riseball using sling-shot because your body is lower to the ground?
- the greater closing of the hips in the sling-shot is a contributing factor in generating more speed (i.e. "slamming the door" shut)?

It's hard for me to believe that sling-shoting (SS) produces a faster pitch than the Leap & Drag windmiller because a) the SS uses almost all arm-whip to generate speed whereas the L&D is using the same arm-whip AND the resistence at stride foot plant to stop her explosive forward momentum. For example, an outfielder is going to get more velocity on the throw to home plate if she takes a stride vs throwing flat footed; b) the L&D is closer (5 ft?) to the batter at release, so all things being equal, by the time the ball reaches the plate, the SS pitch will have slowed down more than the L&D pitch. I can see where a SS could get some additional movement on a pitch that breaks down or to the side because it travels farther and loses more speed because of gravity and drag on the ball.

Episode 105 - Joan Joyce Explains The Slingshot Pitch - The Fastpitch Softball TV Show - YouTube

 

[starsnuffer]

I'm sure that Joan Joyce can pitch faster with a slingshot then a windmill. I'm also fairly sure that if you asked Monica Abbott to pitch slingshot, it would be slower then her windmill pitch.

To settle this, you're just going to have to find a control group of athletes (say a few dozen) willing to devote equal time to both methods to see which produces better results for the majority of the participants.

-W

 

[Steve Huff]

I'm sure that Joan Joyce can pitch faster with a slingshot then a windmill. I'm also fairly sure that if you asked Monica Abbott to pitch slingshot, it would be slower then her windmill pitch. To settle this, you're just going to have to find a control group of athletes (say a few dozen) willing to devote equal time to both methods to see which produces better results for the majority of the participants.-W

As erudite and pragmatic as you can get!

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

If someone thinks sling-shoting produces a faster pitch, what mechanics are causing the greater speed? I see the arm-whip essentially the same with both pitches. Certaintly there must be other mechanics causing the better velocity? The hard closing of the hips as JJ states? Is it the loading (coiling) of the lower body on the back-swing?

 

[tojo]

Screwball, are you saying that batters have not substaintially improved their skills over the years? In my area, most of the girls have a batting cage in their backyard and others are members at the many softball facilities with hitting instruction. Then, we just disagree.