"skipping" off the rubber

[fastpitchdad8]

Unfortunately I don't have the technology to post video on the site. :sigh:

my DD has developed a habit of "skipping" off the rubber; her right foot ( she's right handed) leaves the ground and lands about 2 feet ahead of the rubber. It does'nt look like a "leap" though, just kinda skips. I've tried to place a light rag under her foot and get her to drag it and she can do that, but when she does, she does'nt throw nearly as hard.
She also is falling off to the right to the point where she has has to catch herself with her right foot after releasing the ball.

any tips/drills/advice appreciated

 

[shockcoach]

From what you are describing, it's a classic crow-hop. Is she pitching indoors?

 

[fastpitchdad8]

Yes. Off a rubber on artificial turf and sometimes with no rubber on concrete. It's not as bad without the rubber..

From what you are describing, it's a classic crow-hop. Is she pitching indoors?

 

[Ken Krause]

Take a look at this post from my Life in the Fastpitch Lane blog. Don't click on the screen, click on the little start button at the bottom of each video. The first one show a problem that sounds similar to what you're describing. The second shows a solution I devised for this particular pitcher, who really struggled with it.

Not meaning to be cryptic here, by the way. Just easier to post a link than do it all again.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

If I recall, Bill Hillhouse says that there is normally a hitch in the arm circle that leads to the crow hop. I imagine that a search of crow hop on the site, might find it.

 

[halskinner]

Does she have any kind of forward lean at all? Or is she standing tall all the way through the pitch? I am assuming by your post she is a right handed pitcher.

When your arm makes the windmill circle, it creates what is referred to as a 'Distraction Force', that is any force you generate that pulls you to the left or right off the power line. You push off straight ahead but the distraction force pulls you in the direction of your throwing arm. Somewhat like what an airplane propeller does but obviously no where near that amount of force. If the distraction force is real heavy, they will even bring the ball up in the circle WAY over to the glove side to help counter it even more. (The 'Criss-Cross')

Normally the pitcher, even the youngest, senses this happening even when they do not understand why it is happeneing.

They will ALWAYS have some sort of body movement to try and counteract that distraction force. Many times a RH pitcher will lean to the left during her motions to keep her from falling off to the right at the end of the pitch. This is the most common in the thinner framed pitchers.

Here is how you fix it. Number one, if she is skipping, she is obviously NOT pushing off. If she is standing tall through the entire pitch she is probably taking an extra half step because there is no resistance in the stride leg, her weight is forward not on a slight backwards lean at landing foot touchdown. She has no way to stop her momentum from carrying her forward after ball release.

IF the amount of force used in the push off from the rubber is strong enough, it will overcome the distraction force pulling to the right, it will have zero effect on the forward drive. She must push off and she must do it with enough forward force to overcome the sideways force.

There is a chapter in my book called 'Coach Hal's Foundation Method' that will fix all that and give her the strongest leg work she can have for balance, timing and speed. Look on the bottom of the page and see the statement a pitcher's dad just sent us, you will see a picture of his daughter pitching towards the bottom of the page. She is one of the most highly recruited pitchers in the US. See what HE has to say about this method.

Coach Hal's Foundation Method

 

[LAdad]

From what you are describing, it's a classic crow-hop. Is she pitching indoors?

The link pointed to by Ken also mentions this as a problem associated with indoor pitching. I'm curious, is this because indoors they don't use cleats? While the slight backward slide that Ken used as solution looks smooth, can you actually do that with cleats in the dirt? (In Los Angeles we don't practice indoors, but DD will move to colder climes next year, so I'm concerned about any effects on her technique that will have.)

Toppling over after the pitch could be because she gets no push from her right foot. It could also be that, as seen from the catcher, she crosses her left foot in front of her right foot (DD sometimes does that, which also leads to loss of control because then she has to pitch around herself to still aim for the plate).

 

[fastpitchdad8]

Lots of info here. thanks for the responses.

Amy, i have run a search, TONS of info to digest

Ken, she is definitely not stepping in front of the rubber , then pitching, like the girl in your video.

Hal, my daughter resembles the girl in the video that you linked wearing the white shirt, only mine falls off to the right farther. Mine does not land way left of the line like the girl in that video

LAdad's point about left foot crossing in front of the right intrigues (sp?) me. I've watched videos on this site of girls pitching and I've seen girls that start with their right foot on the power line and girls that start with the power line centered between their feet. Which is correct?

thanks again everyone, love this site

 

[curiousgeorge]

Hillhouse's newsletter seems well timed from yesterday:

Welcome to the House of Pitching Newsletter.
If you're reading this in Softball Magazine or it's been forwarded to you from a friend then you probably won't realize it's been longer than 1 month since my last newsletter/article. Ooops, sorry. We've been doing a lot of other things at the House of Pitching though such as improving our site store and regular updates to the schedule of places I'll be. And my website has now been moved to a new server and new host, which is phase one in getting the new site design and format. Soon the site will have a whole new look and all new features, including a member's section which will have a lot more news than ever before.

If you're reading this in North America, you've probably had your fill of winter. If you live anywhere near me (Erie PA), you've probably had your fill of snow! This winter has been brutal. I've spent a lot of nights stranded in cities due to snow storms which have canceled my flights. I often joke that I fly so much (99% of the time on Delta airlines) that the Detroit airport is my 2nd home. That joke is slowly becoming a reality with all the hotel visits I've had there due to flight issues.

Obviously from a coaching/business standpoint, winter is my busiest time. There's not a lot of coaching going on during the summer months as everyone is busy with leagues and tournaments (including myself). So, this time of year the students I see are putting the work in as they prepare for their upcoming spring and summer seasons. But how much can REALLY be done in practices like this? (Cue the Allan Iverson "Practice? Practice? press conference.)

One of things I tell people in the cold weather states where I do clinics and lessons is that we have a limit on what we can accomplish in pitching lessons. There is only "so much" we can do pitching on gym floors, or on astro-turf facility floors. It's just not the same as being outside. Nothing is! People in California, Florida and Arizona aren't ahead of people in Ohio (for example) because they can play year round, they are ahead in development because they play year round OUTSIDE. And unfortunately, you just cannot simulate game conditions while practicing indoors. It sure beats not practicing at all... but it's not the same.

Pitchers in cold weather states can really develop some bad habits from pitching indoors if they aren't careful, not to mention injuries. The real trick is to make sure some of these bad habits do not become muscle memory issues and transfer into the pitching motion when they get outside and in real game situations. And it takes a very trained eye to see these things which can become detrimental to a pitcher's development. As I've said before, the worst slogan or saying in the world is "practice makes perfect". No it doesn't. Practice makes PERMANENT! It really doesn't matter how much someone is practicing something if it's not correct, all that does is reinforces muscle memory which may not be good! So, what are some of these flaws?

First is the crowhop. Crowhopping is one of the most misunderstood issues in softball pitching and unfortunately it's one of the most discussed topics both at ballparks and online. Sadly, it's talked about by both people who know what a real crowhop is and by those who do not (but think they do). I've done articles in the past (and will cover it in a future video I hope) about how to actually correct the crowhop but in many cases it develops from a pitching coach's neglect or lack of understand about what causes it and how to fix it. It's undeniable however that pitching indoors helps a pitcher crowhop more than pitching outdoors. And here comes the shocker: a pitcher crowhopping indoors isn't necessarily a bad thing! It actually shows she is trying to utilize her legs as much as possible, which is the true source of pitching power. Getting kids to understand that pitching (and hitting) power is actually from the waist down is a difficult thing to do. So when they crow
hop, they are trying to achieve that leg power but, there's NOTHING to push from on a gym floor. So, instead of having the rubber in the ground that acts like a sprinter's starter block for the explosion, they start to jump upward in compensation. This isn't exactly correct use of the leg power and it makes a pitcher try to find their power in other ways as a result. Typically, as a result the pitcher creates a hitch in the arm circle (which is the actual cause of the crowhop) and muscle is used instead of a nice smooth motion. Pitchers who crowhop USUALLY get sore in the shoulder because of this hitch too.

Another common problem from pitching indoors is a twist of the push off foot. Instead of pushing off straight to the target, the foot will turn or twist sideways. For a right handed pitcher, the foot will turn towards 3rd base. Again, this is a positive sign but can create a bad problem if it goes ignored. It tells us that the pitcher is looking for something (pitching rubber) to push off but, once again, there is nothing there. A lot of times this leads to a bad push off and if it goes unchecked, it will lead to a less than optimal drive from the rubber in a game. In reality we want to use the pitching rubber like a sprinter's starter block. And a sprinter pushes STRAIGHT out the box, they do not turn the foot sideways before pushing. So pay close attention to this and make sure a twist of the foot on the gym floor doesn't translate to it's turning when outside.

Sometimes a pitcher will get into a habit of stepping forward prior to the pitch, which means they are not pushing from the measured off distance spot. This is one common indoor pitching problem that rarely translates into outdoor pitching. But it can play a role in the pitcher's psyche. Taking that step forward on a gym floor does provide extra momentum and gives the feeling of throwing hard. Then, without that step, they can feel slower.

Probably the 2 most common injuries associated with pitching indoors involve the knee of the stride leg and the lower back. Neither of these necessarily mean there's a mechanical issue. It has more to do with the surface you're pitching on and the pounding the body takes landing on concrete or something very hard over and over again. Basketball players are commonly getting injuries in their knees too, from the same pounding and jumping on the court. Sometimes it's called Jumper's Knee, it's actually Patella Tendinitis. The back pain is more tricky and painful that most non-pitchers realize. Again, this occurs from the pounding we take landing with such force on the hard floors over and over. Whether you believe in chiropractors or think they are witch doctors, mine put me on to a series of stretches called "McKenzie Method" of back treatment. Again, you don't have to believe in or even see a chiropractor. It's a series of stretches which will help strengthen the musc
les down there and relieve some of that pain and prevent it for those who don't have any... yet.

These are just some issues and injuries that can occur. There's more. The bottom-line is, summer is almost here. For those that have been pitching vigorously throughout the winter, do your best to make sure some of your winter pitching 'issues' don't get brought outside with you. It's not the end of the world if you did establish a bad habit but it will take some extra work to break it.

While spring and summer is here it's never too early to start planning our next off-season and trainings. Make sure you're working on the things in winter which will help, not hurt, your pitching in the summer.
Bill Hillhouse