I would choose (c) almost every time in a rec league.
I would change that for discipline problems and for elimination playoff games.
Playing Time and Parent Problems
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I would change that for discipline problems and for elimination playoff games.
- Feb 3, 2011
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It sounds on some level as though you're treating a non-competitive team as a competitive team. I don't like the parent response, but I have a real problem with coaches referring to someone as a "guest" player when she is not really a guest player.
You do not have a roster filled with major college softball prospects. Play everyone as much as you can. If you want to make it a rule that the top 4-5 hitters play every inning, that's fine. But in rec, there's no designated bench group. In closing, thank you for volunteering your time to give this group of girls an opportunity to play. The parents of those girls need to respect that, regardless of the job they feel you have done.
You do not have a roster filled with major college softball prospects. Play everyone as much as you can. If you want to make it a rule that the top 4-5 hitters play every inning, that's fine. But in rec, there's no designated bench group. In closing, thank you for volunteering your time to give this group of girls an opportunity to play. The parents of those girls need to respect that, regardless of the job they feel you have done.
- Jun 1, 2015
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There is a lot of gray area in the matter as a few past posters have said:
a.) It's not rec-ball but it's not travel ball either. I make it known up-front that I want this team to be competitive - if you work hard to be successful and become a better athlete and team player, wins should follow. If not, then we review, reflect, and rebuild.
b.) The "guest" players were ORIGINALLY intended to only be for 2 games. The girls on the team saw their abilities and TOLD ME they should stay - that is, until they realized it would cut into some of the girls' playing times. A "you can't have your cake and eat it to" situation.
c.) This league is meant to be competitive - to say my team is "non-competitive" is not very valid (except if you are describing attitudes, then that may be somewhat valid).
d.) Every team is different in how they play their lineups/rosters. Some have 10 and play 9 & a sub, some have 15 and bat/field all 15 at some point.
^ Very true, and this was made WELL-KNOWN to ALL players/parents when they signed up. I outright said to these parents, "She will probably struggle in her first year, but given time and focus/dedication to getting better, she will grow in time". The focus wasn't there, dedication to improving hasn't been there (otherwise focus would be instead of goofing around), and therefore she was an easy choice to use as a flex until she could prove she could listen and follow directions (as I would ask of any other player). I wasn't doing drills any 10U player couldn't handle, let alone 12U or 16U.
I've got a growing list of things I'm adjusting for next year - top of that list is coming up with a concrete philosophy for this team for what we want to accomplish as a team and as players, a "guest" player set of rules (if it ever becomes an issue again), and many more.
a.) It's not rec-ball but it's not travel ball either. I make it known up-front that I want this team to be competitive - if you work hard to be successful and become a better athlete and team player, wins should follow. If not, then we review, reflect, and rebuild.
b.) The "guest" players were ORIGINALLY intended to only be for 2 games. The girls on the team saw their abilities and TOLD ME they should stay - that is, until they realized it would cut into some of the girls' playing times. A "you can't have your cake and eat it to" situation.
c.) This league is meant to be competitive - to say my team is "non-competitive" is not very valid (except if you are describing attitudes, then that may be somewhat valid).
d.) Every team is different in how they play their lineups/rosters. Some have 10 and play 9 & a sub, some have 15 and bat/field all 15 at some point.
^ Very true, and this was made WELL-KNOWN to ALL players/parents when they signed up. I outright said to these parents, "She will probably struggle in her first year, but given time and focus/dedication to getting better, she will grow in time". The focus wasn't there, dedication to improving hasn't been there (otherwise focus would be instead of goofing around), and therefore she was an easy choice to use as a flex until she could prove she could listen and follow directions (as I would ask of any other player). I wasn't doing drills any 10U player couldn't handle, let alone 12U or 16U.
I've got a growing list of things I'm adjusting for next year - top of that list is coming up with a concrete philosophy for this team for what we want to accomplish as a team and as players, a "guest" player set of rules (if it ever becomes an issue again), and many more.
Maybe I missed this earlier in the thread, but if this is the true goal, why not just build a travel ball team?
- Jun 1, 2015
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Completely fair question - there are many factors involved in not doing a travel ball team out of this situation.
a.) I live about 15 minutes north of a city of around 15,000+ with multiple travel ball organizations, and about 30 minutes away from another city with even more travel ball teams. They've long-been established as "the" groups to go to for tournament/travel play.
a.) VERY economically disadvantaged area I live in. I only know of 6-7 athletes in my town who do the travel ball commitment at its cost. The girls who play for my team are ONLY responsible for $41 for PART of the cost of their uniform. Anything else we cover through donations from businesses or fundraisers, etc.
c.) There's just enough commitment for my practices in the pre-season and our games just in the month of July. Weekend tournaments out-of-state and such would simply not work for this group. I know my audience and what their interest is.
d.) There's just enough commitment for the 16U level I do (even though many of my players would be seen more as 14U or so - I can't recruit older players for some reason, too many things going on otherwise), let alone trying for a bunch for other levels.
So I stay with what I have going on and just try to make it as competitive as possible. The girls LOVE competition when it's in practice between their own teammates (lap races around the bases, hitting contests, relay throw counts, etc.), so if I can get that out in games, we stand a good chance at becoming inspired and upbeat, which combining that with working on skills and techniques, should bring success. Harnessing that is the key, and I'm trying to find strategies to do so.
a.) I live about 15 minutes north of a city of around 15,000+ with multiple travel ball organizations, and about 30 minutes away from another city with even more travel ball teams. They've long-been established as "the" groups to go to for tournament/travel play.
a.) VERY economically disadvantaged area I live in. I only know of 6-7 athletes in my town who do the travel ball commitment at its cost. The girls who play for my team are ONLY responsible for $41 for PART of the cost of their uniform. Anything else we cover through donations from businesses or fundraisers, etc.
c.) There's just enough commitment for my practices in the pre-season and our games just in the month of July. Weekend tournaments out-of-state and such would simply not work for this group. I know my audience and what their interest is.
d.) There's just enough commitment for the 16U level I do (even though many of my players would be seen more as 14U or so - I can't recruit older players for some reason, too many things going on otherwise), let alone trying for a bunch for other levels.
So I stay with what I have going on and just try to make it as competitive as possible. The girls LOVE competition when it's in practice between their own teammates (lap races around the bases, hitting contests, relay throw counts, etc.), so if I can get that out in games, we stand a good chance at becoming inspired and upbeat, which combining that with working on skills and techniques, should bring success. Harnessing that is the key, and I'm trying to find strategies to do so.
Definitely some valid points and I realize that much of this is dependent on region. However, when we first started the travel ball thing, the cost was not extreme. Our first year (12u) consisted of a team made up of girls from 5 different school districts. Each player was responsible for a fee of $300 which included uniforms, field use, and several local tournaments. We did not travel more than 1 hour from home during that first season. We offered several fund raiser options that the families could use in order to cover the costs. In fact, our fundraisers covered all of the player fees and gave us enough left over at the end of the summer to have a nice pizza party with some gifts for the players (windbreakers with the team emblem). In most cases, the biggest cost for our families was food during the tournament weekends. Even then we tried to limit food expenses by grilling as a team. This all said, I realize that local tournaments may not be as plentiful in other places. We could play 7 or 8 tournaments a year without traveling more than an hour.
NOTE: As we moved up in age, the overall cost has increased substantially. But that is due to travel, hotels, showcase tournaments, etc. All by our choice. We could still create a decent schedule with minimal costs if we really wanted to. Even now, I spend more money on bats each year than I do on team fees.
NOTE: As we moved up in age, the overall cost has increased substantially. But that is due to travel, hotels, showcase tournaments, etc. All by our choice. We could still create a decent schedule with minimal costs if we really wanted to. Even now, I spend more money on bats each year than I do on team fees.
- Jun 1, 2015
- 501
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Totally reasonable, but I have some parents who had to give me the $41 in increments because of how little they make, and it's NEVER my policy to hold someone back from playing because they can't pay me for their part of their uniform. That being said, I said at the start of this program we weren't going to get any better than we are and didn't want to be. We're a summer-league team and that was all. If we needed other equipment, we needed to fundraise more (this helped the girls realize it was their team to help contribute to as much as I helped set things up for them).
Simple at 16u....at beginning of the season tell the parents and players this in a meeting together
1) I will not under any circumstance talk to a parent about your daughters playing time. I will not talk to a parent about
my softball strategy. If a parent comes to my dugout to talk to me during a game, your daughter will be benched
1) I will not under any circumstance talk to a parent about your daughters playing time. I will not talk to a parent about
my softball strategy. If a parent comes to my dugout to talk to me during a game, your daughter will be benched
- Jun 1, 2015
- 501
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We had another situation pop up last night. I didn't have my 2nd pitcher, so I had 9 girls going up against the 2nd best team in the league (who has no problem steamrolling anyone). So 2 twin girls who played a game for me earlier in the season (they are 12U TB girls - GREAT attitudes, loved by the kids, parents are great, and they don't care where/when they play - one's a P, the other's a C) said they were open to helping us out for the game. I said sure. We batted everyone and free-subbed on defense.
Some of my "regular" parents were getting pissed because I rotated a different outfielder to sit out the 1 inning, including the 2 girls (who were fine, they understood, so did the parents), and that possibly meant a "regular" girl was sitting for an inning when the other girls were. One parent even went so far as to say, "Maybe if you weren't such a sh***y coach, you'd have a good team" (neglecting the fact his girl hit .420 for me last year and has only barely hit .250 for me this year). I'm at a loss for what to do - I try helping my team out by AVOIDING getting killed and losing positive attitudes/momentum with our playoff tournament on Saturday, but when I try to help, nobody seems to either a.) Understand/hear out my side, or b.) Give a damn if it's not about their kid. Where's the line?
Some of my "regular" parents were getting pissed because I rotated a different outfielder to sit out the 1 inning, including the 2 girls (who were fine, they understood, so did the parents), and that possibly meant a "regular" girl was sitting for an inning when the other girls were. One parent even went so far as to say, "Maybe if you weren't such a sh***y coach, you'd have a good team" (neglecting the fact his girl hit .420 for me last year and has only barely hit .250 for me this year). I'm at a loss for what to do - I try helping my team out by AVOIDING getting killed and losing positive attitudes/momentum with our playoff tournament on Saturday, but when I try to help, nobody seems to either a.) Understand/hear out my side, or b.) Give a damn if it's not about their kid. Where's the line?
It sounds like your "team" is somewhat of a hybrid that many here do not understand... Kinda like me, where when you say "rec" or "league" team in my area it is a city sponsored "league" that is normally governed by a regional or national organization with some local rules thrown in OR "travel" which is a team that is not affiliated with a city, generally has an overall organization (whether national or local or regional) and plays primarily on the weekends in tournaments sponsored by various national organizations... It is human nature for me, when I hear "rec" to apply what I "know" to the situation being described which in the beginning causes some confusion...
That said, "coaching" is generally coaching and managing a team is generally managing a team regardless of where someone is... Parent problems are always going to be parent problems and they are going to exist regardless of what a coach does or does not do... The only thing you can do as a coach is to layout your expectations and rules early (before the season starts), stick with them throughout the season, and communicate with the players and/or parents depending on the age level/maturity of the team... I have seen many coaches running a good team end up with problems because of a lack of communication - simply many assume the parent/player know what is going on and they do not and this causes confusion and frustration which ultimately results in a blow up...
My coaching days are behind me but one thing that always served me well was "dancing with the one's that brought me"... If you could not have a team without this 12yo player at the start and she was at every practice, then she deserved to play in the environment that you laid out here... I understand you needed to pick up some players along the line and their talent was better... At the same time, I do not think the parents were in their right to act like they did either... It is just one of those gray areas that coaches are going to have to deal with... You sound like a passionate guy that is trying to do good things for softball in your area and I hope you can get past this and keep moving forward... Best of luck...
That said, "coaching" is generally coaching and managing a team is generally managing a team regardless of where someone is... Parent problems are always going to be parent problems and they are going to exist regardless of what a coach does or does not do... The only thing you can do as a coach is to layout your expectations and rules early (before the season starts), stick with them throughout the season, and communicate with the players and/or parents depending on the age level/maturity of the team... I have seen many coaches running a good team end up with problems because of a lack of communication - simply many assume the parent/player know what is going on and they do not and this causes confusion and frustration which ultimately results in a blow up...
My coaching days are behind me but one thing that always served me well was "dancing with the one's that brought me"... If you could not have a team without this 12yo player at the start and she was at every practice, then she deserved to play in the environment that you laid out here... I understand you needed to pick up some players along the line and their talent was better... At the same time, I do not think the parents were in their right to act like they did either... It is just one of those gray areas that coaches are going to have to deal with... You sound like a passionate guy that is trying to do good things for softball in your area and I hope you can get past this and keep moving forward... Best of luck...
