Pitching off of the Fastball?

[Greenmonsters]

Hitters practice too and a good hitter can hit any pitch (particularly if they know its coming). Hitting is about timing and pitching is about disrupting timing. Unless you IBB every hitter, whatever you throw runs the risk of getting hit. If you remove the FB from the pitcher's arsenal, you've left the batter with one less speed to have to adjust to (and reduce the top end speed range by several mph to boot). Why is a change up effective? Because of the speed differential. When is a change up effective? When the hitter is expecting a faster pitch i.e., the change disrupts the hitter's timing. What if the pitcher's best pitch is a curveball - should she throw it every pitch? How often should she throw it during each at bat or the 2nd, 10th, or 25th time she faces the same batter? What pitch has the pitcher thrown the most of and has the best control of? Its a rare exception if its not the fastball. You mix your pitches, you change your patterns, sometimes you save your best pitch for when you need an out the most. Can you pitch off your fastball? Yes, if its above average, well located, and set up by your other pitches. Can most pitch off their fastball? Probably not, but that's no reason not to abandon it. Ever seen a #4 hitter take 3 change ups in a row looking for a K? Ever seen an All-Star MLBer take a FB down the middle for a called 3rd? Were these pitches unhittable? No, but somewhere earlier in that at bat, or a prior at bat, or prior game, good pitch calling and proper execution set up these outcomes.

 

[Steve Huff]

There have been a few great posts here. Let me weigh in a little. Michele Smith threw a lot of fastballs until the last day of her career. We had a lot of talks about it. According to Michele, advanced hitters often hesitate on a pitch low outside right at the corner because it is hard to reach. Secondly, they don't know if it is a moving pitch. Her fastball moved down a little, but not too much. I remember her ending the Japanese Cup (Championships) in Japan with a fastball one year with a strike-out. And she could pin-point a fastball low outside at 67-69mph consistently. She was a 3 pitch pitcher most of her career. Rise-ball, fastball, curve, adding a change-up the last 5 years or so when she added the "flip" change.

The Netherlands team was held to one game in which they scored 1 run or less in 7 innings. That was against Russia. And the Russian pitchers threw 31 first pitches, 27 of which were fist pitch fastballs. Pin-point, on the corner. Two first pitches were curve-balls, 1 screw ball, and 1 rise-ball. They threw second pitch fast-balls to get a count of 1-1. They dominated. How is that possible?

Now before anyone gets stupid or foolish, as a former DI coach, I can tell you that The Netherlands would be a top 4 team at the WCWS. In fact, do you remember Lindsey Meadows of Louisiana Tech? She is married to a Dutch guy and is the #3 pitcher on the Dutch team.

Dutch Women Softball Team - Official Website

So my question is, is this possible, and to what talent level? There is a lot of disagreement. And yes, I have had 2 pitchers that could paint the corners 80% of the time. One I have mentioned before graduated at 4'11" and won 105 straight HS games with a fastball, curve, and change-up, until she found the "bottle" and a bad boyfriend. The other was slower at 53-55 and never learned a rise because of too small hands, and had 8 straight games without a walk. Both girls averaged less than 2 walks per tournament from 14U thru 18U and pitched every game; unfortunately the shortest girl graduated 4 years ahead. This was in the hinter land of Utah and Montana, but in Montana, we played in Washington, Oregon tournaments.

So my claim is that a pin-point fastball is effective. So chime in on your opinion and level of play thoughts.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Maybe your "fastball" is the peel drop. Vary the speed of the pitch and throw in a change-up and rise ball to expand the strike zone. Should be very successful.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Maybe your "fastball" is the peel drop. Vary the speed of the pitch and throw in a change-up and rise ball to expand the strike zone. Should be very successful.

I just don't get the whole "peel drop" argument. A peel drop has a shorter stride, weight's a little forward, wrist back and fingers pulled over the ball. It's clearly an intended breaking pitch with body mechanics. A 4 seam fastball that may "tail" down is just a 4 seam fastball that "tails" down, nothing fancy.

But to add a small amount of movement to a FB you can vary the grip to a 2 seam, 4 seam, off-center or cutter style, and if her hands were big enough maybe a split finger. But they are all FB's.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Wow - this is concluding not where my head was at in the end of the season last year but I know the bunch of y'all here probably have much more experience than I do as just a dad of a 16U pitching DD.

I have to take my brain back to the drawing board on this one. Was it that the fastball pitching I saw was really not that pin-point? I thought it was. I know it was good speed (60-62 mph). But maybe too it was the umpiring that did not allow wide corners... (I know in the HS conference here in my hometown that umpires hate to give pitchers the advantage of corners maybe 90% of the time for fastballs. But if you "awe them" with a breaking ball they like to give pitchers more credit. Of course the worst strike-calling is on change-ups. Strike-calling on that pitch is all over the place. )

 

[GOINGDEEP]

But maybe too it was the umpiring that did not allow wide corners... (I know in the HS conference here in my hometown that umpires hate to give pitchers the advantage of corners maybe 90% of the time for fastballs.

I got removed from the field at a tournament in 2010. Champ game after a long hot day ( heat index of 105 ), my DD was out of gas so we went with our #2. She was throwing some good pitches but the blue gave no corners, so of coarse she had to stay over the plate. She was getting hit pretty good. I had a nice conference early in the game asking the blue "where is she missing". He said she's not consistent. I thought " no shat you idiot, a pitcher is not suppose to be". ( how else do you fool the batters ) duhhh

Well we got a little heated over the next inning or two, and finally I had enough!! I walked out to the plate and kicked dirt all over it. Then reached down with one finger and drew a line down the middle, I told him " blue there's your strike zone ". And I was tossed!!

 

[John T]

Biscuit,

Could not agree with you more! Umpires have a hand in this. My daughter is not a "Power Pitcher" but she can hit corners all day long (All four of them) and has a good change up, but if Blue is not calling the entire strike zone she is going to have problems. I too have been bounced from a game after arguing balls and stikes with the ump. I do not know where they learn the strike zone in our area but it is really small and just happens to be right in the heart of the plate. You would think with all of the improvements in equipment they would be willing to give a little on the strike zone (NOT) and call all of it.

 

[starsnuffer]

Steve,

I think the real answer is just to do what we do in the states. Just call that inside pinpoint fastball a screwball, and poof, you've just added another killer pitch that the announcers can rant and rave about. Call that low outside corner fastball a peel drop, and now you have a 5 pitch prodigy on your hands. Problem solved!

-W

 

[Steve Huff]

Maybe your "fastball" is the peel drop. Vary the speed of the pitch and throw in a change-up and rise ball to expand the strike zone. Should be very successful.

Yeah, that brings up a side issue. I have never had a pitcher who threw a Cat Osterman corkscrew fastball. Everything is typically down, more out than in, but in sometimes, especially up and in, and it is bending down! The second pitcher I mentioned threw a curve-change, a straight-change, a drop ball, and a fastball. She had to throw the fastball like a rise on occasion. She allowed 2 fly balls the whole year to the left fielder. I had 8 varsity level players for that program :-( and where do you think that JV girl was hidden?

But good point. A fastball should never be straight.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

I just don't get the whole "peel drop" argument. A peel drop has a shorter stride, weight's a little forward, wrist back and fingers pulled over the ball. It's clearly an intended breaking pitch with body mechanics. A 4 seam fastball that may "tail" down is just a 4 seam fastball that "tails" down, nothing fancy.

But to add a small amount of movement to a FB you can vary the grip to a 2 seam, 4 seam, off-center or cutter style, and if her hands were big enough maybe a split finger. But they are all FB's.

Hillhouse, Mark Hanson, and others (including DDs pitching coach) would argue that the peel drop should be your fastball. It's thrown hard, just released a fraction of a second earlier than the fastball. The modern thinking on pitching is make every pitch look the same as every other pitch until the pitch is well on its way to home plate (e.g. the stride is the same, the arm follow-thru is the same, etc.). This whole idea of manipulating your body mechanics differently for different pitches is not what good PCs are teaching today. There is big emphasis on finger pressure and finger position(s), not on different body mechanics. Why telegraph the pitch to the batter? If you ever get a chance to view Hillhouse's DVDs, I highly recommend it.