No Progression With Pitch Speed

[Fastpitch86]

Interesting how some say long toss is counterproductive. I guess someone needs to inform Monica Abbott as that is a key part of her regimen. My DD works at 67-68 and utilized both long toss and weighted balls for about 5 years. Weight training is fine but kind of ludicrous if only for a 3 month HS Season. Unless HS is the end game you need to look beyond that. A HS coach will turn you into the best HS player you can be. Which will not get you beyond HS. Peak athletic performance is a year round commitment. There is no "off season" only times of less than full intensity. You need to train, condition, and eat properly year round.

We've been to many college and NPF games and frequently see pitchers doing long toss. Some of these NPF pitchers are probably doing long toss from literally 200'. Our pitching instructor recommends long toss in the off season to strengthen the arm.

i am looking to see if anybody can provide any websites, YouTube videos, etc. to show which drills work best for their DD in their development.

 

[riseball]

Every athlete, amateur professional or otherwise benefits from variety in activities and does take time off. For example, Murphy ordered Traina to take time off, which improved her performance the next year.

As evidenced by her stellar performance in the WCWS.

 

[FrozenRope]

I agree with the nay-sayers, Long Toss can be counterproductive IF you dont know what to "coach" during the activity. If all the athlete does is increase the arc on the throw to reach...you're teaching bad mechanics.... and likely praising it if they do in fact reach the target. If used properly in a proper progression, and the person running the drill is able to recognize when they've reached their max distance with proper release....it can be incredibly useful. Just like any other drill/exercise, it needs to be done properly to be effective. Altering release to arc the ball further is not a good idea. Think of it like this... only go as far as you can until they cant reach without the arc going above 8 feet. You'll be lucky to get to 2nd base. Throwing from CF, 150' away is CRAP. You're teaching bad mechanics. Next thing you know you'll be trying to fix the dreaded "Elbow snap"

 

[riseball]

I agree with the nay-sayers, Long Toss can be counterproductive IF you dont know what to "coach" during the activity...

How does this differ with coaching any other skill? What drills have you found that are not counterproductive when executed improperly?

...Throwing from CF, 150' away is CRAP. You're teaching bad mechanics. Next thing you know you'll be trying to fix the dreaded "Elbow snap"

If that is the case why do so many elite level pitchers such as Monica Abbott throw from well out in CF? What they are doing obviously works, yet they have it all wrong? Why do MLB pitchers utilize long toss out to 300ft to prepare for the regular season?

 

[abbygale]

One GREAT thing about long toss is that you can put so much physical effort into it that you don't allow your mind to limit you. Granted, it can be a chicken or egg situation, but each time you overcome self-imposed limitations it makes the next time easier.

 

[Ken Krause]

I bought a Nancy Evans (UofA) video a couple of years where she said for long toss to think about throwing the ball over the backstop instead of to the catcher.

When I do long toss I try to get the player out as far as I can. The objective isn't just to build strength; often it's also to show a pitcher how much more she can do than she's currently doing, i.e. get her whole body into the pitch. I'll have her tilt back and arc the ball. Not really changing the mechanics as much as the attack attitude.

A key part of the progression, though, is then to work your way back in, basically pitching from the same locations you used on the way out. By the time they're around 50 feet they should be dialing everything back in for a normal pitch.

One other thing I like about long toss is how close the catcher looks to the pitcher after she's been out around second base, or in the outfield. Unfortunately, living in the north a lot of my lesson time is spent indoors, in a cage, so it's tough to incorporate it year 'round.

 

[Fastpitch86]

I bought a Nancy Evans (UofA) video a couple of years where she said for long toss to think about throwing the ball over the backstop instead of to the catcher.

When I do long toss I try to get the player out as far as I can. The objective isn't just to build strength; often it's also to show a pitcher how much more she can do than she's currently doing, i.e. get her whole body into the pitch. I'll have her tilt back and arc the ball. Not really changing the mechanics as much as the attack attitude.

A key part of the progression, though, is then to work your way back in, basically pitching from the same locations you used on the way out. By the time they're around 50 feet they should be dialing everything back in for a normal pitch.

One other thing I like about long toss is how close the catcher looks to the pitcher after she's been out around second base, or in the outfield. Unfortunately, living in the north a lot of my lesson time is spent indoors, in a cage, so it's tough to incorporate it year 'round.

This is basically what our PC has told us. Sounds like most people are on same page with long toss so we will continue to work on this over the off season.

 

[FrozenRope]

How does this differ with coaching any other skill? What drills have you found that are not counterproductive when executed improperly?

OK, so let's just leave this as me stating the obvious. Fair enough.

If that is the case why do so many elite level pitchers such as Monica Abbott throw from well out in CF? What they are doing obviously works, yet they have it all wrong? Why do MLB pitchers utilize long toss out to 300ft to prepare for the regular season?

Just because Monica Abbott did it, that makes it right? Maybe she does it because she can? Maybe others see it and think that's the reason she's able to throw as hard as she does. Apparently by your quote, you think so? I like what Ken said.... Long toss is a great tool for teaching an athlete to use more than their arm, i.e. their entire body to make the ball travel a further distance. Increasing the arc of a thrown object doesn't teach them anything other than a physics lesson. More arc = more distance. At some point you'll reach the point where increasing the arc nets a diminished return.

As for MLB pitchers using long toss to prepare for the season, I agree, many do. Many do not. I don't think they use it to increase velocity as much as they do to train their arm... much in the same manner any athlete trains in pre-season.

Look, I'm not saying I disagree with long toss ... I just think the 200' pithes are a dog and pony show, and don't enforce good mechanics...but rather encourage and train bad mechanics. Throw the ball from CF with a 50 foot arc, or throw the ball from 75' with an 8' arc. Acomplishes the same goal, but the 8' arc can stil promote what you want... a pretty good mimic of the actual release with proper mechanics. THAT encourages the athlete to put more energy into the motion.

 

[Fastpitch86]

Anybody have links to a good off season workout program for pitchers?

 

[drc9805]

There's quite a few exercises listed in the Drive Mechanics thread geared for pitchers.