Need some help on arm location.......

[javasource]

Thank you so very much for the time and effort. It is truly appreciated.

Java, I never thought about it but after reading your comment about wrist torque, you are exactly right. I have been cueing her to torque the wrist on the way down but what I was really meaning was the face the ball upward on the way down. In my mind, they are the same but I was wrong. Perhaps that is causing the premature IR of the humerous because she is a little too tight due to the focus on the "torque"? The cue of bringing the tricep into the body will definitely make sense to her and we will use it. I believe we are going to abandon the knuckle change for the time being continue to focus on the things suggested. Thank you so much for the advice and feedback. Truly great stuff.
Boardmember, I see exactly what you are talking about. I remember a recent post of yours referencing a pitcher (I believe you said it was your DD) with similar content about syncing the push and staying below the line thus pushing more outward than upward. Honestly at the time I didnt really understand what you were talking about but now i completely understand it. Thank you for the input!

Again, we so much appreciate all of the time and effort that has gone into this. Thank you.

Boomers,

Working with people like you and your daughter... even if it is over the net... brings absolute joy to people like me.

Her progress should be an example to all the other dd's and bucket dads/moms on this board. Her evolution and both your efforts are the ingredients necessary to succeed in this world. Thank you.

 

[Boomers2012]

Lizzy101913 - YouTube

Just want to be sure we are performig this drill accurately before we proceed. We did the drill for about 20-30 minutes this evening and I finally gave in to the "can we pitch now dad??" . We pitched for about 30 minutes and I know there were some pitches in there that were harder than she has ever pitched so she must have been pretty close to achieving the desired result. The best part of it is she knew when it was right....i did to because as java stated, my hand was stinging a bit.

 

[Ken B]

I showed DD and she wanted to know why she's posing? I tried to get her to clarify (while she was dribbling a soccer ball through the living room...) and she briefly demonstrated a more dynamic motion (before dribbling away.)

Added: In other words, she's starting from an almost fixed/static position and she's slamming her shoulders.

 

[Ken B]

Gotta wonder if ADHD is hereditary...

 

[Boomers2012]

I showed DD and she wanted to know why she's posing? I tried to get her to clarify (while she was dribbling a soccer ball through the living room...) and she briefly demonstrated a more dynamic motion (before dribbling away...)

In contrast to DD, I'd suggest working on being a little less dynamic with the upper body.

I guess I dont follow. Less dynamic with the upper body? I doubt she was posing...just trying to get the glove and arm in the correct position. She hasnt done this drill in quiet some time so she was probably trying to go through the sequence in her mind before she did it.

 

[WaSpeed02]

Gotta wonder if ADHD is hereditary...

It absolutely is. I inherited mine from my 6 year old.

 

[Ken B]

I guess I dont follow. Less dynamic with the upper body? I doubt she was posing...just trying to get the glove and arm in the correct position. She hasnt done this drill in quiet some time so she was probably trying to go through the sequence in her mind before she did it.

Yes--just a little less emphasis active upper body movement. During full motion, the torso opens and closes. Some might say the upper body motion is absolutely necessary to optimize efficiency. They are 100% correct IMO. However, using properly sequenced mechanics during full motion, the upper body takes care of business almost always without conscious effort. When working on whip, my preference is to not force a motion in an isolation drill that's not forced in full motion.

I'll ask lil DD more about her question tomorrow, but I'd have to think her thought is that Lizzy appears to be starting the drill from an unnaturally fixed position. Try the drill yourself. My hope is that you'll find that if you swing into the drill instead of starting from a fixed position, you'll find more benefit.

Hope that makes sense...

Ken

 

[javasource]

Lizzy101913 - YouTube

Just want to be sure we are performig this drill accurately before we proceed. We did the drill for about 20-30 minutes this evening and I finally gave in to the "can we pitch now dad??" . We pitched for about 30 minutes and I know there were some pitches in there that were harder than she has ever pitched so she must have been pretty close to achieving the desired result. The best part of it is she knew when it was right....i did to because as java stated, my hand was stinging a bit.

I'm still waiting on Lizzy's autograph...

I'll take a stab at what Ken's DD was getting at... (By the way... how cool is it that Ken's DD is contributing!)

When I loaded the video into Photoshop as a layered series of pictures, I had to cut 90 frames of your daughter standing in the T position, before the motion started. I might attribute this to Lizzy waiting on Pop's to give her the "Lights, Camera, Action!" cue. But the dynamic movement Ken alludes to (I think...) is starting in a relaxed, arms down position, and when you're ready to do the drill - you reverse chain from hands down to 9 o'clock and then throw it... all in one smooth motion.

I gotta say, Lizzy's wrist flexion is freakin' lights out! Many girls struggle with this movement, IMO.

I have two constructive criticisms that may or may not be shared by others... just my opinion...

1). Lizzy's shoulders are too active. As she gets closer to release, you can see her left shoulder acting independently of her hips and base - creating a torque that is not centered; or controlled. It happens prior to her upper arm being stabilized against her side, which IMO, is undesirable. That old slamming the door thing... perhaps. I'd have her quiet her shoulders and focus entirely on upper arm stabilization. Interestingly, that stabilization of the upper arm allows her biceps to act as stabilizers to allow for energy transfer in the forearm. Meaning, she'll get more speed and power (and safer, too), if she relies on upper stabilization and forearm acceleration. That, in my opinion, is the goal and should be the focus of the 9 o'clock drill. It also lessens the load or force that will act on the anterior region of the shoulder complex - the area that many pitchers become troubled with, physically.

If after showing her, she's is conscious of this movement - it might because she thinks it will add to the pitch.... as many door slammers "sell" that as the reason to perform the movement. Conversely, it is scientifically proven, that core contribution is maximized only when the pelvic and scapular regions are stabilized... not acting independently. This is the only way to maximize the transfer of energy from these proximal regions of our bodies to the distal components. It is also proven that a positive and maximized contribution from the core occurs around 45 degrees (in relation to the hips/shoulders) at release. Lizzy's upper body torquing is causing her hips to be almost entirely closed at release... at least in this drill.

2). After pointing out the above... an optimal angle to achieve (between the upper arm and forearm) as the tricep contacts the side, is somewhere in the neighborhood of 120 degrees. This is one of the most well documented of all fastpitch pitching traits in studies. This angle allows energy transference between proximal and distal arm segments, but also allows the forearm a decent remaining radius to travel - so that it may reach maximum angular velocity on release.

Point being... she straightens her arm at the beginning, and that lack of angle, prevents her upper arm from reaching a good stabilizing position when it contacts her side. So, when her upper arm reaches her side, her forearm isn't lagging behind (or bent enough) to allow the upper arm to accelerate the forearm the rest of the distance...

I noticed that you posted a gif prior to posting the vids on the previous post. This leads me to believe that you can view this current video in a frame-by-frame method. As such, I haven't attached one to this response. If I'm mistaken, or anyone else feels they could benefit from seeing it, I'll post one tomorrow (I'm sure I will anyway). It's late... and I need to catch some zzzz's!

p.s. Autograph?

Here's the gif...

 

[Ken B]

Sorry for being a bit vague with the suggestions. JS covered it much more clearly.

 

[Boomers2012]

I totally see it. If my interpretation is correct, in this drill, she is basically using her upper body to help propel the arm instead of stabilizing the upper body and pulling the ball down??? We are going to do this drill into the net from close distance with no real "target". As for the pose in the beginning.....that is totally my fault as i completely forgot the reverse chaining aspect. I bet she felt like she didnt have enough "power" to make it all the way to me thus incorporating the upper body to add to the momentum. I have a hunch doing this into the net will allow her to focus on the arm and not so much on the target (my glove). As always, great advice. Truly appreciated.