Need input from pitching and coaching veterans

[starsnuffer]

The small group lessons are great for starting out, and clinic environments are good for teaching particular skills or working on a set range of exercises, but nothing trumps 1:1 instruction.

The pitching coach is supposed to teach pitching. "Getting girls signed" is the responsibility of the player, but can be aided by softball recruiters.

-W

 

[David Carter]

^^^^My thoughts exactly if you are doing group/clinic style $40/hr is pretty steep unless it is just two girls then it might work.

but if 5 girls show up each paying $40/hr that is $200/hr for what amounts to maybe 10 mins of instruction that just does not add up.

Not sure exactly what your options are if you want to stay with same coach but you would be better off paying $40/half hour of 1on1 time, if he needs more money to make it worth his time.

As others have pointed out though it depends where she is at, is she very established just working on getting better movement pitches or is she still just a strong beginner.

 

[CE98Coach]

At best, that works out to about $160 per hour of instruction that you are paying for. Sure, you get collateral information if you can hear the coach talking to other kids, but $40 for 10-15 minutes of 1:1 time is a lot in my mind...

$60 per hour for a group of 4 would be the most anyone should be asking for.

Yeah, this was done at the advice of someone she confides in and he's a great hitting coach and he definitely has credibility. However, I think she's going to find that the quality of her students long term is going to take a hit. There's a reason her older pitchers vying for scholly's still demand one on one time. The problem is all her 1 on 1 slots are limited and reserved for her older girls and the ones who have been pitching with her the longest.

My daughter demands tremendous accountability and she got it 1 on 1, even if she had to do push ups the whole 30 min. Everything's just been different since and we're prolly about to make a move. Her travel coach is a pitching coach who got his daughter to and SEC school full ride so that's an option we're seriously considering.

 

[Ken B]

Hanging out with a group of other pitchers in a clinic format is not a bad thing. The younger/newer kids often get to see advanced pitchers demoing form. Group activities, games and competitons can be a lot of fun. I don't think it should substitute for 1:1's, but at a low cost and a decent staff to pitcher ratio, there is definitely a place for this format.

 

[Hit by the Pitch]

A couple years ago someone mentioned a periderm their facility setup.

First the player needed to graduate from the group lesson.
Second they needed to graduate from one on one with the B instructor.
If you made it all the way through that you had the privilege on seeing the A instructor.

They seemed happy about the entire thing.

Last year I tried to setup a one on one for my DD with a specific instructor which she had worked with before and was told she was booked for the entire 5 month off-season. (Edit: Probably should not have said who DD was, she might be booked forever if I call. )

You need to find something you and your DD are comfortable with.

 

[Madsdad]

DD does the group style and is doing well. I guess it depends on the instructor and student. I spend a lot of time with my daughter to make sure she does what the instructor wants. This does not mean forcing her to practice. This is about making the changes and working smart. Even if a girl spends an hour one on one, it does not mean that she will follow the lesson plan the day after the lesson. I have also seen plenty of one on one instructors that are just stealing money.
DD's instructor also provides mats for the students and a facility which is also part of the fee. In our area that fee could be more than 75.00 per hour. Not to mention the fact that she is traveling 90 miles to get to our area. There is some overhead that needs to be looked at in our case. In time my daughter will need one on one but for now she is getting very good instruction and I feel it is worth every dime. I can also contact the instructor anytime for advice or to answer questions.
I have also contacted several different members here on this site for advice. They have all brought things to the table that dd has been able to use and it was free, thanks to all of them

 

[MandM]

are you asking 2 questions?

Is group instruction effective? and Is this a fair price?

Is this a fair price?

IMO, (and I live in an area where everything costs)- this is a lot of money for a group lesson- as you are getting 12 minutes of divided attention for $40. Maybe your instructor can charge a premium due to her reputation, but this seems to be too much to me (and I have paid alot of money for lessons in my time- and still do)

Is group instruction effective?

IMO, it depends on what your DD needs and whether she is successful, makes adjustments easily, has good speed, and natural ability, and has had solid instruction from the beginning etc.- in which case, this may be perfect for her as her natural ability plus minimal instruction = success. The question is, will this setting allow an instructor to bring a less-gifted student (who presumably needs more focused instruction) to their maximum ability? IDK the answer to that, I only know that group lessons (with 5 or more students) would not work for my DD - she needs focused attention, not only to undo the bad habits acquired from poor instruction but also to keep those bad habits from returning and making inroads. We were at the lesson yesterday- and the instructor and DD laughed that each time DD comes in , there is some new issue (at least they could joke about it)

 

[halskinner]

OK. Here I go swimming against the current again.

I held my first clinic in 1980 and my last clinic I believe was in 2004. I have put on or participated in 5 clinics in my lifetime. I only did those because I was given no choice.

Most of the instructors in my are would do small group, 7 or 8, and some one on one.

Ido not like clinic or group instruction fo this reason; they turn out cloned pitchers. Whatever strengths one would have, most all would have. Whatever weaknesses or problems one would have, most all would have those too. You could tell it in their eyes and faces that they know they are no worse than the girl in front of them in line. They also know they are no better than the girl behind them in line. For the most part, they all came out the samr, and they know it.

As far as the problems they all seem to have, the most obvious to anyone watching, a big lack of confidence. You see it in their faces in the games, the first time a pitch gets hit and a runner gets on you can see it. Group lessons and clinic lessons inspire little to no confidence because they cant. The student is just another pitcher at the lessons, nothing special.

A pitcher's first confidence level is instilled in them from the instructor. That seldom happens in group or clinic settings. It cant, because they are just another pitcher in the line and they know it.

If you pay 40 dollars for an hour session with 5 other students, the math is simple, 10 minutes each. Someone said there is a value in what the instructor says to one of the other students. That is true. However, if the instructor is correcting something the student because of things that are not correct......

I am sure there are instructors that do an excellent job in group and clinics but I have not seen them.

Let the crucifixion begin.

 

[BoardMember]

Pitching "instructors" put on clinics.........Pitching "coaches" work with individual players focusing on both the mental and physical aspects of the individual he/she is coaching........

If your DD needs "instruction".........Stay the path..........If she needs a "pitching coach"..........It's time to move on........

 

[X pitcher]

BM are you saying Pitching Instructors only do clinics for beginners, and they teach the basics. Then after the PI, a student should move on to a pitching coach, who will work one on one and correct the bad habits and teach how a pitcher should pitch using their head. Can a PC do clinics, and can PI do one on one lessons? Aren't they both teaching? Sounds like you are saying a PI teaches throwing underhand and a PC teaches pitching with zen. I notice you have not given a thanks for a useful post to anyone. Why is that? Your I/R in the class room is very hard to comprehend. I guess I could be unwilling to want to or need to really understand I/R. I'll try to re read it, but I doubt I can. Maybe I should read Rick Pauly's I/R sticky first.