Need help with interpreting some pitching video( comparing two HS JV pitchers)

[robinh]

the video below is of two pitchers. Pitcher #1 is my DD, pitcher #2 is another pitcher on her HS JV. the slow motion portion shows them side by side, frame by frame.

My DD is the starting JV pitcher because of her accuracy, but she is way too slow. this clip is from a double header last week. She pitched four innings the first game with zero earned runs (1 walk). the second game the opposing team had figured her out and adjusted and she gave up 8 earned runs in two innings.

Pitcher # 2 is about 20% faster than my DD. Last year was her first year to pitch, so her form is bad and she is wild. In this video I am only concerned about the speed, and I'm not interested in or in a position to fix anything with pitcher 2.

Here's what does interest me and I need some feedback on whether or not I am interpreting what I am seeing correctly and what to do about it. these videos were shot the same day, same camera, so comparing frame by frame gives and accurate comparison of where the two pitchers are at the same point during their pitch. here's what I am seeing. My DD is at the same point or even slightly ahead of pitcher #2 all the way to about the 11 o' clock position. From that point pitcher #2 gets to release about 20% faster than my DD. About the same difference and the difference in their pitching speeds.

The thing I found most reveling is this. I have been harping on DD to keep her head and shoulders back because she is leaning forward at the release. but on the frame where pitcher #2 releases, the body position of both pitchers is very similar and my DD is in the position I want her to be in at the release. but her arm is still at the 5 o' clock position. After seeing this I feel like instead of working on keeping her head and shoulders back longer, we need to teach her to accelerate her arm from the 11 o'clock position to the release so it gets there while her body is still in the right position. In other words she's getting her body where it needs to be on time but her arm is late. (I replayed that frame at the end and froze it for 5 seconds.) Am I on the right track, and what can we do about it?

Sequence 01-1 - YouTube

 

[David Carter]

Obviously others will have tons of comments, and I am not an expert by any means, but I think the simple answer is explosiveness while I did look at the slo mo you can see it better is regular speed.

Hal will probably label your daughter a step style pitcher and I would probably agree. The biggest tell is front toe touch look at the slow motion video when she lands her back foot is still on the rubber. Compare that to any other top pitcher or even pitcher#2 at toe touch her back foot is several feet off. I actually think while she could speed up her arm circle you should actually be looking at her lower body position from push off position 6 oclock to 12 oclock that is where she loses lots of speed and she can never make that speed you generate from your lower body at push off back up with more speed coming down through release.

 

[halskinner]

Step style? Yes. She is strong.

My vision is terrible anymore but, is she also leaning way over at the waist when she releases??

 

[knightsb]

Follow sluggers advice:

Pitching is about momentum transfer. Think of this like you had a brick on the dashboard on your car. If you want the brick to go through the windshield, do you gradually slow down the car? Or do you slam on the brakes?

The idea is that you get the entire body moving toward the catcher and then you suddenly stop the body. The body's momentum is transferred to the arm, and then to the ball.

So, if you look at your DD, you see her coming forward and taking a step after release. She needs to stop coming forward.

Also, please take a video standing directly behind her. One important part of pitching is the arm circle. A view from the back tells us whether her arm circle is warping.

Pitcher #2 does what sluggers describes better than Pitcher #1.

 

[sluggers]

(knightsb beat me to it...I need to quit my job and focus simply on responding to posts...)

robinh, you are like a lot of newbies--you are focusing on the wrong thing. Arm speed is something you work on *AFTER* the mechanics are good.

Assume you had a brick on the dashboard of your car, and you wanted the brick to go flying through the windshield. Would you slow the car down gradually? Or, would you slam on the brakes?

Similarly, the idea in pitching is to get the body (which includes the arm) moving quickly in a nice straight line toward the catcher and then stop everything but the arm. The ball then isn't released as much as it explodes from the hand.

Now, look at pitcher #1...what does she do after she releases the ball? She is walking *TOWARD* the catcher. Now, look at pitcher #2. She comes to a stop after she releases the ball, with her right foot behind her left foot. She never brings her right foot around.

So, which pitcher has more momentum transfer? Pitcher #2. Who throws faster? Pitcher #2. Pitcher #1 can do arm speed drills until the cows come home and she won't pick up any speed.

 

[robinh]

Thanks, that makes sense. That's why I posted this, I figured I was focusing on the wrong thing! I don't have any video from behind her, I'll try to get some as soon as the weather cooperates. I did shoot some at the same game from behind the backstop. I wasn't at a great angle to see her arm circle, but maybe you can see something that will help. Front View-1 - YouTube

So what do I have her do? (we've tried to get help from the HS "pitching coach." all she ever tells her is to touch her right shoulder on the follow through. I think her follow through is not right, but I don't think touching her right shoulder is the answer.) Since we are into the season, and she is expected to pitch 60%-70% of the innings from here on out, what's the best drill to have her do right now, short term?

 

[sluggers]

The drill I would have her do is to do a walk through (she stands a few feet behind the rubber, walks forward and pitches when her right foot touches the rubber). After her push off, she keeps her *RIGHT FOOT* off the ground until the catcher returns the ball to her. It is going to feel strange to her, but she'll eventually get it.

Once she can do that, then you can start working on increasing her leg drive and her arm speed.

 

[robinh]

Thanks, we'll start on that ASAP!

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I want to compliment you on the video. Both girls look very nice - w/o the glaring problems that we sometimes have to try to correct.

One thing is that you can't correct too much, is that the second girl has a slightly bigger body build. Take a look at some of the major D1 pitchers on tv and you will see what I mean. So, we want your DD to get more leg drive. Does she do walk throughs and have they been gunned for mph? Also, I would like to see her overhand throw and have it gunned for mph. She should easily be pitching as hard as she can throw overhand.

I do a drill called over and unders. Have her in front of the pitching rubber and throw home, like a runner is coming home. Get the ball right back to her and have her pitch from the same spot, in front of the rubber. DO this over and over encouraging her to come harder and feel the similarities, instead of the differences.

 

[robinh]

Thanks Amy!

She does walk throughs sometimes as part of her warmups, but I've never gunned them. The HS doesn't use a gun at all, but I was given one for Christmas so I'll use it this weekend and see how she does with that. I've never gunned her overhand throw, but she throws reasonably hard, she plays shortstop when she's not pitching. That will be interesting to see what it is. I'll have her do the over and unders as well.

As far as leg drive goes, she has a lot of strength in her legs (she currently leg presses 240lbs-3 sets of 8, does deadlifts, back squats and jump lunges with I'm not sure how much weight.) But strength hasn't helped her explosiveness, if anything she's gotten less explosive as she's gotten stronger. I've done some research on developing explosiveness and looked at some plyometrics, but there seems to be some injury potential in at least some of them so we haven't tried that yet until I learn some more.