MTS, HYP, RHC, Noontime, and others

[Stever]

I understand what you are saying about turning the barrel rearward. Get on plane deep in the zone, and the other high level benefits from this action, etc.

What causes this action in your opinions?

Do you promote the idea that the hands unhinging immediately cause this action?
Or does the back elbow slotting cause this action, assuming they stay connected?

This has probably been discussed recently, but I have not been on this site in awhile.

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[NoonTime]

Hey Stever,
One of my early threads after I started making GIFs was trying to get good images of the hands working. It's over at BBD and you need a free login to view the hitting threads but here is the link:
Hands GIFs at BBD

In that thread I gave an attempt to describe what I saw happening in those clips. (Blasts from the past are fun! )

This was a fun read as well (again at BBD): Ellipticalinear Hitting at BBD

All in all it's a discussion ripe for differences in interpretations and meanings of cues as the articulations that are seen are isolated from the intent of the actions that cause them and then "when" it all happens is tried to be put into context of the whole sequence of the swing.

Drills that are meant to isolate the feeling/actions in the hands without "everything else in the swing", end up looking nothing like the actions in the full swing when the "everything else" is added back in.

vs.

Best bet is to wrap your head around it in a context that makes sense to you and not really worry about what everyone else thinks... unless of course they are Wrong

Cheers,
NoonTime

 

[NoonTime]

More drill vs. swing...

vs.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I understand what you are saying about turning the barrel rearward. Get on plane deep in the zone, and the other high level benefits from this action, etc.

What causes this action in your opinions?

Do you promote the idea that the hands unhinging immediately cause this action?
Or does the back elbow slotting cause this action, assuming they stay connected?

This has probably been discussed recently, but I have not been on this site in awhile.

Thanks ahead of time.

I can understand the notion of the rear elbow starting the swing … but it is incorrect IMO.

The comment of “does the back elbow slotting cause this action, assuming they stay connected?” suggests to me a different belief of ‘connection’.

Connection is not a position or a frozen fixed orientation that is purposely rotated.

When you attempt to create a pivot point of the barrel, with the pivot point being between the hands, while the rear upper leg is driving, then you will become ‘connected’. It can be thought of as a connection from the rear hip, or rear upper leg, up through to the barrel. There are actions at both sides of these connections. If one simply nixes the objective of “turning the barrel”, then they have severed the connection … and the result is a ‘take’. That is how a 'take' is performed ... you simply cease with the objective of "turning the barrel", and the upper end of the connection is terminated.

The rear elbow lowers as a ‘result’ of the connection being made … as a result of the hand pivot point being activated.

You can certainly do the opposite … you can lower your rear elbow and then find the barrel … but that isn’t how the best swings are performed IMO.

 

[rdbass]

A little taste of the Noontime gifs at BBD:
(not sure of source of top gif)

 

[rdbass]

FFS, does this show the "connection" ?

 

[redhotcoach]

I have been working on it with 2 dozen kids on it to different degrees for the last month. I haven't found one explanation or cue that works good for more than a few.
Now dd works the most with me. She already has seen the rearward barrel in vids, so she knows what we are looking for. The best drill with her to start with we have named the Vladi (Guerrero). We start with the handle in front and out front. Top of bat pointed at pitcher, rear elbow (triangle) is pointed almost straight up in the air. Then we slowly pull hands back toward rear shoulder while turning the triangle slowly down. When the hands get to the back shoulder and the barrel is pointed about 45 degrees forward we launched the barrel hard rearward. We start this drill a few swings 45 degrees open feet. Then feet at noontime drill position. Then feet at reg swing postion. Her main focus is on her forearms and launching the barrel rearward. No thought at this time of the lower half.

DS (7yr old)...I started using "the Perfect Connextion" with him last week. He hits a pad with it, and does snap stop swings. His cue is "turn the triangle quick as you can". We take the connection bar off, and then his que is "turn the triangle and pull the swing with your back pulling toward the backstop." I couldn't be happier with his improvement in just 4-20 minute sessions doing this.

The other girls and young boys are getting different degrees of "turn the triangle, tip and rip, and fire rearward". I will say a couple it is pretty natural, a few I have dropped it because they aren't going to work on it, and most do pretty well with a tee, and pretty poor with front toss.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I have been working on it with 2 dozen kids on it to different degrees for the last month. I haven't found one explanation or cue that works good for more than a few.
Now dd works the most with me. She already has seen the rearward barrel in vids, so she knows what we are looking for. The best drill with her to start with we have named the Vladi (Guerrero). We start with the handle in front and out front. Top of bat pointed at pitcher, rear elbow (triangle) is pointed almost straight up in the air. Then we slowly pull hands back toward rear shoulder while turning the triangle slowly down. When the hands get to the back shoulder and the barrel is pointed about 45 degrees forward we launched the barrel hard rearward. We start this drill a few swings 45 degrees open feet. Then feet at noontime drill position. Then feet at reg swing postion. Her main focus is on her forearms and launching the barrel rearward. No thought at this time of the lower half.

DS (7yr old)...I started using "the Perfect Connextion" with him last week. He hits a pad with it, and does snap stop swings. His cue is "turn the triangle quick as you can". We take the connection bar off, and then his que is "turn the triangle and pull the swing with your back pulling toward the backstop." I couldn't be happier with his improvement in just 4-20 minute sessions doing this.

The other girls and young boys are getting different degrees of "turn the triangle, tip and rip, and fire rearward". I will say a couple it is pretty natural, a few I have dropped it because they aren't going to work on it, and most do pretty well with a tee, and pretty poor with front toss.

RHC... I need that .gif of the overhead shoot... I cant find it anywhere... Sorry Thx

 

[RichK]

RHC, thanks for the practical drill ideas. One question: within that context: what do you feel you gain using the Perfect Connextion (btw, haven't seen that touted in a while : >)

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS, does this show the "connection" ?

Connection does not imply a rigid single fixed geometric orientation.

Maybe I should say it this way … “good connection” is not a rigid single fixed geometry.

Heck … one could speak of ‘bat drag’ as ‘connection’ using a definition of a fixed geometric orientation. That might be ‘connection’, but it would be “bad connection”. So let’s speak of “good connection”.

You don’t actually “see” connection, you “feel” connection. For folks like HYP, and many others with experience swinging and teaching, they view a video clip with a perspective of “feel”, and so these folks can look at such video and see connection. Connection is an ‘action’, not a ‘position’.