Just 3 pitches

[AndyS]

My dd has been taught to throw just three pitches. And to be honest my DD's PC says that is all he will ever teach her. She first learned a "fastball" which was really a peel drop. And she did not move on to a changeup until she could throw her fast ball with correct drop spin very, very consistently with proper mechanics which took about a year (maybe even more). And interestingly she is told speed absolutely matters. I see posts here saying speed does not matter. He seems to disagree. After the changeup she was taught the riseball. She has been taught to work the riseball, drop, and change along a diagonal meaning typically riseball up and in, drop ball and change low and outside. Obviously it depends on the batter and hand position at toe tap, etc., count, game situation etc. And she does work those pitches especially the drop ball low and in.

On the three pitches, his reasoning is flat screwballs and curves are very hittable. Speed absolutely matters as well as "real" movement. Just curious to see how that syncs with others around the country. Obviously I did not get into every detail but can if there are questions.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

On the three pitches, his reasoning is flat screwballs and curves are very hittable. Speed absolutely matters as well as "real" movement. Just curious to see how that syncs with others around the country. Obviously I did not get into every detail but can if there are questions.

Flat screws and curves are hittable, but they are a useful tool. Working on the corner or off the plate with screws and curves can make the batters hit off the handle or end of the bat resulting in a weak pop up or slow rolling ground ball. Once your DD gets older you will realize as the competition gets better ( batters ) it's not as easy to have a game full of strike outs. You will have to work the batters more. Making them reach, lean, lunge, outside...........making them elevate or drop their elbows, arms, shoulders when you jam them inside.

Another tool is learning a drop curve, or drop screw. Seems like there is an old post on here about these two pitches.

 

[sluggers]

Speed absolutely matters as well as "real" movement.

"Speed" is important if you aren't throwing fast enough. I've seen two girls who had great riseballs (one held the state record for strikeouts in a season) but only threw 55 MPH. Neither made it at D1. The slower a pitcher throws, the more time the batter has to react. The more time the batter has to react, the more balls are going to go over the fence.

As to "movement"--to play in college, your DD has to have a big time vertical movement pitch. It has to move more than 6 or 7 inches.

My DDs' pitching coach was a former men's fastpitch pitcher. He produced many, many D1 pitchers and two non-pitcher Olympians. His students pitched for, e.g., Illinois, Bradley, Stanford, Michigan, Ohio, DePaul and South Florida. Two of his pitchers became D1 pitching coaches. He taught a change, a drop or a rise, and the fastball.

His rationale for not teaching the curve/screw was that (1) curve/screw was flat, (2) a pitcher can't get enough movement due to the relatively short distance from the mound to the plate, and (3) if a pitcher had enough wrist action to throw a really good rise or drop, then learning a curve or screw was easy.

My DD learned to throw the curve and screw in college, but they were used mainly to keep the batter off-balance. She wouldn't have lasted two innings if that was all she had.

Your DD should focus on learning one big time vertical movement pitch. One great movement pitch is better than 4 bad movement pitches.

Daddies are notorious for imagining that their DDs' pitches are moving all over the place. One Daddy swore that his DD threw a curve-screw.

 

[AndyS]

"
My DDs' pitching coach was a former men's fastpitch pitcher. He produced many, many D1 pitchers and two non-pitcher Olympians. His students pitched for, e.g., Illinois, Bradley, Stanford, Michigan, Ohio, DePaul and South Florida. Two of his pitchers became D1 pitching coaches. He taught a change, a drop or a rise, and the fastball.

His rationale for not teaching the curve/screw was that (1) curve/screw was flat, (2) a pitcher can't get enough movement due to the relatively short distance from the mound to the plate, and (3) if a pitcher had enough wrist action to throw a really good rise or drop, then learning a curve or screw was easy.

Daddies are notorious for imagining that their DDs' pitches are moving all over the place. One Daddy swore that his DD threw a curve-screw.

So I think what you are saying is very much in sync with what my dd's pc teaches. The one question I have is when you say drop versus fastball. Are you saying she threw a rollover drop or did she really spin a peel drop? What my dd will do is offspeed her "fb" by spinning it more from a peel drop perspective.

I totally agree with you btw on real movement or should I say my dd's pc does. She will pinwheel a rise and think she has done something and he will burst her bubble. To move a vertical pitch in my limited experience takes proper spin on the right axis and velocity.

 

[sluggers]

Are you saying she threw a rollover drop or did she really spin a peel drop?

My DD threw a rollover drop. Her drop was her main pitch. Her success was due to her control and her ability to throw variations of the drop ball.

She cruised at around 62 MPH--which is average for D1. Everyone at D1 level throws 60+. So, speed isn't a big differentiator between pitchers, unless the pitcher is throwing 67+ MPH.

What my dd will do is offspeed her "fb" by spinning it more from a peel drop perspective.

I've not heard of doing it that way, but offspeed pitching is unique to each pitcher. I'm not sure you can find two pitchers out who throw off speed the same way.

Her pitching coach didn't really "teach" a changeup. He showed her various ways to throw one. He encouraged her to change speeds with her fastball and drop. He never wanted two pitches back-to-back at the same speed. He would talk endlessly about the need to change speeds.

She will pinwheel a rise and think she has done something and he will burst her bubble.

Which he should be doing. No use pretending.

 

[Sparky Guy]

My DDs' pitching coach was a former men's fastpitch pitcher. He produced many, many D1 pitchers and two non-pitcher Olympians. His students pitched for, e.g., Illinois, Bradley, Stanford, Michigan, Ohio, DePaul and South Florida. Two of his pitchers became D1 pitching coaches. He taught a change, a drop or a rise, and the fastball.

Ray,

How long ago did your daughter attend Serdar's pitching clinics? I know I spend a LOT of time at the warehouse during the winters. As far as I know Ed never gave any individual lessons. He would work individually with his pitchers tweaking their motions or grips. There were never any "lessons" given. It was more a group effort with the older pitchers teaching the younger ones.

My daughter played for him for four years. During that time she did learn how to throw a drop, rise, screw and curve. Not from him, rather from the other pitchers in the program and elsewhere. What she did learn from one of the older girls and Pods was a killer riseball. Once she got the reputation in college as a RB pitcher they started laying off of it. She then turned to using the rise to setup screws and curves to get hitters out.

The other thing that helped with her success was she had the same catcher for 3 years of HS, 3 years of travel and 3 years of college. They worked really well together on the field. They both came from the same program and learned how to play the game under the same coaches.

 

[sluggers]

Ed ran the program. My DD worked primarily with Ed, Jack and Teresa. Teresa, IMHO, was far and away the best teacher.

As far as the pitches, go...Ed believed that pitchers tended to be either drop pitchers or rise pitchers. He wanted each of his pitchers to have a killer rise or a killer drop. He would show people how to throw the other pitches, but he wanted the pitcher to focus her work on one vertical movement pitch. With Ed, the amount of time my DD spent on the drop was probably 100x what she spent on all the other pitches combined. The result was my DD developing an outstanding drop.

 

[dpett]

She cruised at around 62 MPH--which is average for D1. Everyone at D1 level throws 60+. So, speed isn't a big differentiator between pitchers, unless the pitcher is throwing 67+ MPH.

Maybe...But I remember a few very good pitchers in this years CWS that cruised in the high 50's. And one fine pitcher threw 80% screwballs and won the whole thing.

 

[sluggers]

But I remember a few very good pitchers in this years CWS that cruised in the high 50's

Who would they have been? Langenfield (UCLA) 67 MPH, Macon (UCLA) 68, Kerr (UCLA) 62, Fowler (AZ) 67, Brombacher (FL) 62, Aevalo (GA) 63, Nottleman (MO) 63, Rickets (HA) 64, Renfroe (TN) 67, and Lawrie (WA) 67. Am I missing someone?

And one fine pitcher threw 80% screwballs

Considering the scores of the last two CWS game (a combined total of 35 runs), I don't think the UCLA or Arizona pitchers were sitting around bragging about their "fine" pitching performances. (Although I wouldn't put it past the normal softball Daddy to be running around saying "Wow..we held 'em to 9 runs!!!")

It is true that at D1, good pitchers are trying to make every pitch move. However, simply because the ball moves a couple of inches doesn't make it a breaking pitch. That is really the problem with Daddies and their DDs in travel ball--a kid can make the ball move a couple of inches, and the Daddy proclaims she "has" a drop, curve, screw, or rise. That simply isn't the case.

In 2008, Stacey Nelson was a very effective screwball pitcher--of course, she also threw 70 MPH. She threw a very good screwball, and could make the ball move quite a bit. Of course, she was also pitching illegally. When the NCAA started enforcing the "lane rule" in 2009, then the effectiveness of the screwball pitchers went down.