I/R pitching DVDs

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Some PC's have said, "Well she forces the follow through but look how good she is". I always counter with, "But just think how great she could be if she was pitching with a natural arm movement instead of a forced one".

In my experience, there are at least two reasons many PCs teach "hello elbow" to their students. Either a) they don't really understand arm whip and how to generate velocity and impart spin to the ball using proper pitching mechanics; and/or b) they want their student to see immediate success (that might be achieved short term for newbie pitchers) otherwise they fear losing their student and their student's $$ if they struggle for several months.

My DD's first (now former) instructor was one of those "push the ball down the arm circle" and "finish with the pitching hand coming up to the pitching shoulder after release" kind of instructor that are all too common in fastpitch. These instructors get paid a lot of money over the years from unsuspecting parents; you would at least think the instructors would actually spend a few minutes watching some slo-mo pitching video of Jennie Finch, Amanda Scarborough, Cat Osterman etc. to see if what they are teaching is actually how good pitchers pitch. They would quickly realize that the correct ball position and arm action during the pitching motion of quality pitchers is the exact opposite of what these instructors are teaching. It borders on criminal (or at least gross negligence) in my opinion.

 

[quincy]

Since this has come back up again I am going to post a link to a local facility that does really good business.

allinonesoftball.com

You can tell their 2 example pitchers were taught by the same instructors and have spent a lot of time getting to where they are at. Would they be better if someone else helped them, like their parent from a DVD? IDK

 

[CoachFP]

In my experience, there are at least two reasons many PCs teach "hello elbow" to their students. Either a) they don't really understand arm whip and how to generate velocity and impart spin to the ball using proper pitching mechanics; and/or b) they want their student to see immediate success (that might be achieved short term for newbie pitchers) otherwise they fear losing their student and their student's $$ if they struggle for several months.

My DD's first (now former) instructor was one of those "push the ball down the arm circle" and "finish with the pitching hand coming up to the pitching shoulder after release" kind of instructor that are all too common in fastpitch. These instructors get paid a lot of money over the years from unsuspecting parents; you would at least think the instructors would actually spend a few minutes watching some slo-mo pitching video of Jennie Finch, Amanda Scarborough, Cat Osterman etc. to see if what they are teaching is actually how good pitchers pitch. They would quickly realize that the correct ball position and arm action during the pitching motion of quality pitchers is the exact opposite of what these instructors are teaching. It borders on criminal (or at least gross negligence) in my opinion.

There are only two possible reasons why a PC teaches "Hello Elbow". They read it in a book or they never pitched before and someone told them this is what you do. All someone with common sense has to do is go on YouTube and watch the best pitch and you won't see one Hello Elbow at all.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

There are only two possible reasons why a PC teaches "Hello Elbow". They read it in a book or they never pitched before and someone told them this is what you do. All someone with common sense has to do is go on YouTube and watch the best pitch and you won't see one Hello Elbow at all.

Many of the "hello elbow" instructors did pitch at a high level including Jennie Finch and my DDs former PC who played D1, which shows that you can be a great athlete but not really know the mechanics or reasons behind it, and I am fine with that. But if you are taking money from people, I feel you have an obligation to have a solid understanding of the pitching mechanics/motion before signing them up. Ever try to tell the parents paying for these pitching instructors that their DD is taught incorrect mechanics and they look at you like you are an alien. A few parents get it and will try to educate themselves and seek better instruction, most won't though.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

The second pitcher from the above site, will be lucky if she isn't called for being illegal.

 

[quincy]

If you are talking about bring their hands together they are both illegal.

I would love to see you have one of them for a couple months to see if and how much they improved, you can see from the video they have the work ethic.

Edited to add: I know they would be!

 

[knightsb]

Socal, my lack of reading through the thread(s) is not a closed mind to what BM has said. And I'm sorry that I've disappointed you. I should clarify, when the topic first started, I did start reading the thread as I do almost all the new threads when I get time. And my having stopped reading wasn't due to disagreeing or anything of the sort.

Truth be told, I'm just a pretty simple guy. I don't follow things like that very well and find it hard to keep up. Even going back a few months ago when "Steve Huff" was posting on here, there was an ongoing battle about something and it just got to be too technical for me. I stopped following it. The only part of that I truly enjoyed was the implication that coaching in Denmark, Germany, Russia, etc. was some how an "honor". I got a good chuckle out of that. But that's a different subject.

I do not think or pretend that I "know it all". I do not think or believe I cannot continue to learn more. I am ALWAYS open to learning more. To know me in person you would know I have no ego. I don't believe that I am somehow better than anyone else because I was fortunate enough to have a nice pitching career. With that said, I would like to think I do an adequate job of teaching the same pitching motion that I use myself and explain WHY. I didn't have a pitching coach when I was learning, I asked a zillion questions to every pitcher I could find. The things I teach today are what I do myself, and I'm pretty sure "I/R" is involved in that.

But the truth is, I just don't follow things very well in that manner. Maybe I have ADHD, maybe I'm just a visual learner, or maybe it's something else. But I found a lot of the discussion to be confusing and I stopped following it. But maybe you're right... maybe I should try reading it again. YOU SEE... I can learn!!!

Bill

Bill, I really appreciate your reply. I appreciate the honesty and I can relate in finding it hard to keep up when the discussion becomes super technical it is like trying to drink from a fire hydrant. DDs foundation for pitching is a combination of your DVDs, BM's IR threads and a dash of Doug Gillis.

Thank you for participating on this forum. The time you put in, the time BM puts in, and the thoughtfulness of your posts indeed shows how much you both care and your passion for the sport.

PS. Thanks for the speedy shipping of "The Pitches" we got it in time for Christmas.

 

[fpfire]

if u guys are looking for a great video/dvd. check out jennie ritters new dvd. jennieritter15.com. my daughter has used her pitching coach for years now. one of the best!!!!!! lots of leg drive

 

[Left Hook]

I never teach anyone to face the ball/palm toward 3rd base in any part of the circle. It may, as a result of the the pitch being thrown, rotate slightly from 12:00 facing forward slightly outward the back upward at 9:00 as the load prepares to "unload".

There is a reason I don't teach my students to "rotate the ball" to facing outward at the top of the circle........Its because I DO teach them that up the circle, the ball/palm SHOULD BE facing downward or inward. If you understand that from these positions up the circle, the arm/hand MUST ROTATE OVER THE TOP to get the ball facing outward toward 3rd base. More often then not, this creates "over rotation" over the top and puts the hand more on top of the ball at/over the top of the circle.......Which IMO is a FATAL FLAW to I/R mechanics.........

IOW........IF the thumb is facing inward on the way up the circle........The palm/ball are more NATURALLY facing forward at the top of the circle..........The only way to get the ball facing outward from this up the circle position is to BEGIN rotating the thumb OUTWARD to get the ball facing that direction.........I don't want my pitchers to begin rotation of the thumb OUTWARD on the way up the circle........

can anyone show this? I am not getting this

 

[Ken B]

Ball facing third at the top: