I just don't get the bunting obsession

[PA SB Dad]

Had a rather amusing "bunting situation" last weekend. DD played on a team as a pickup player. Anyway coach decided to sacrifice bunt #8 batter with a runner on first base and one out. Perhaps ordinarily it might not be such a bad strategy, but given that in this game we were only playing with 8 players and had an automatic out for the vacant number 9 batter, it didn't work out so well.

OK, I'll give you this one. That was a poor coaching decision!

 

[YOCOACH]

You must show you can get a bunt down before the pull back will work. We would not charge a show/pul back if the batter has not shown she can bunt

So if most players on the team have showed that they can bunt, even if it's not a specific player at bat, you wouldn't expect a bunt in that situation? Not criticizing, just asking for your viewpoint. But in the situation I described, only the 3B was creeping in. It was a sharp hit, perfectly placed ball which was tough to defend even though F3 and F4 were playing there normal positions. The point was that had the batter not practiced that particular skill during our batting practices, this would not have been able to happen. Small Ball is part of the Offensive game in SB and can be used effectively at all levels but it must be practiced so it can be utilized by all players, even if the team only uses it sparingly.

 

[gatorcoach]

We have used the show/pullback/hit & show/pullback/bunt lots of times and it is a great weapon. I am simply saying that if we know a specific batter cannot, or has not shown the ability, to get a bunt down we would not expect a bunt. If 1B not charging then the show/pullback had no bearing on a hit through the right side. I agree 100% that ALL aspects need to be practiced and I am huge proponent of "Don't ask a player to something in a game that you have not done in practice."

Again, I was going back to the OP saying that they understand the show/pullback more than a standard bunt. That is why I said if you cannot/have not shown you can bunt the pull back does not work.

If you can do it all (swing/bunt/show-pull back) then you are very dangerous!!!!!!!! If you are a 1 trick pony than you are predictable. Now, if you bat .600 with 20HRs then forget everything I said.

 

[Country Boy]

At least this response attempts to answer the questions, but you still manage to come off as a jerk. "If I knew anything about FP Softball?" I've coached FP for 6 years. I go to coaching conventions. I run a division in the local league. No, I'm not a college level coach, nor do I want to be. I'm a guy who helps kids learn the sport. Nowhere did I state that bunting was replacing hitting (again putting words in my mouth). I posed a specific instance which mirrors many other coaching philosophies that I've seen, and then asked for someone (with more experience and/or different viewpoints) for the reasoning behind this. My post was followed by other people who were curious about the same thing...the next 4 posts were others asking for a discussion on this. I guess all of us don't know "anything about FP"? I guess all of our thoughts are "ridiculous"?



A 3-1 record against weak teams does not a winning coach make. You again assume that my viewpoint comes from sitting in the stands. The fact that I post on THIS forum alone should inform you that I'm not just the weekend dad who sits around complaining. It should inform you that I spend just a little bit of time learning the game. But once again, rather than using common sense, or asking for my background, you make assumptions. You say I need an open mind to learn "based on my opening post", I don't have have one. How you get that opinion when I asked for other people's input is beyond me. Again, I think, you are trying to justify your own position by belittling others. Do you think that if someone disagrees with you, then they are close minded?

I would suggest that next time a question is posed, no matter how "ridiculous" you find it, that you take a minute to consider that other people have viewpoints that may be different from yours. If you have reasons which you find relevant to the discussion, please feel free to share your experience. But if the purpose of your post is to belittle people asking for help or opinions, then keep your thoughts to yourself. Because you come off as a jerk when you put words in other people's mouths or assume facts that you simply are ignorant of.

I guess when you questioned "why bunting should replace hitting as the dominant ofensive philosophy" in your OP, I interpreted that incorrectly. I interpreted that as you questioning why Bunting was replacing Hitting. Otherwise, why ask? My bad. Historically, FP softball has emphasized the short game. That is bunting/ slapping in a nutshell. It is not replacing hitting, in my opinion. Just as Michael Jordan cannot replace LeBron James as the best Basketball player ever. It is the most common philosophy in the history of offensive FP. Since it's the most common, it can't replace hitting as the dominant philosophy. If anything, hitting at the upper levels is replacing bunting. But not at the levels around me. Most teams I see, can't field a roster of power. Not everyone is destined to be a power hitter. But almost anyone can be taught to bunt.

I assume your view point is that of the stands, because you said, and I quote, "I'm in the stands biting my tongue." Not sure how that can be misinterpreted. You declared you were sitting there. Not me. If you are sitting in the stands, your viewpoint is... wait for it... from the stands.

I find it ironic that you start this thread, openly questioning the wisdom of a coach utilizing a successful, proven offensive strategy that is winning games. Then you admit that you will be working to corrupt your own DD's fundamentals by encouraging her to get less patient at the plate. That's not me putting words in your mouth. You said, "We are going to start going to the cage after school and work on changing her hitting philosophy. I've always taught her to be patient at the plate...when there are no strikes, you look for that pitch that is in her zone...if ump calls a low or high ball a strike, that is fine; she has 2 more pitches to drive. But now, (coach usually waits until the 2nd pitch to put the bunt on) she has 1 pitch to drive. She'll need to expand her zone if she wants to swing the bat because otherwise there is a good chance she'll be told to bunt." I assume this new philosophy is so that she can impress the NPF coaches that are scouting at her JH games?

If you are truly planning to teach your daughter to be less patient at the plate to overcome this coach's philosophy, you're not a coach. You're a Dad. Coaches teach fundamentals. Dad's teach that there is no team in "ME".

There are several other posters in this thread that have legitimate inquiries. I don't remember a one of them that was critical of an existing situation. Not a one of them posted that they would be working with their DD to overcome a specific coach's philosophy. That's why I will take a condescending tone with you and belittle you. Your 'My Daughter First' philosophy is why it's hard to find/make good coaches.

Your DD has played 3 games. She has 1 hit (bunt) and 2 K's. Are you questioning his philosophy or do you need an excuse for her struggles? You mention that she bunted 4 out of 6 times over the last 2 games. Clearly, my math doesn't allow for her to have gone 2-2 in the 2 non bunt at bats. By my math, she went 0-2. Maybe your DD is just really struggling and the coach is bunting her instead of benching her. She has struck out twice in 3 games. Are you really blaming that on his bunting philosophy? Is she frustrated or are you? In my experience, I don't see a lot of frustration from team players when we are winning. They can get a little down, but not frustrated. Winning cures most ills for players. Parents commonly, however, need to have their child do well.

I don't know your situation, but here is what I have seen over the years. Past performance at 8, 10 or 12U is not indicative of future success at 14, JH or HS. Your daughter has some tremendous numbers in the past. But young players (Boys and girls) bodies and minds change. Very seldom do I see the best boys basketball player in JH be the best as a SR. I think of a young man named Matt. Matt was 5'8" in the 8th grade and he dominated. 4 years later, he was 5'8" as a SR and didn't even make the team. Your daughter may be struggling with things that have no relation to this coach or softball. Yes, she's struggling at the plate. But that doesn't mean small ball is responsible.

 

[coach james]

There's a time and place for everything... #4 batter up, with runners at 2 and 3... swing away baby.

 

[JAD]

This is the stuff I understand, and the stuff I'd like to see a whole lot more than the standard bunt (and something I think would be much more effective than the standard bunt). There is a specific tactical situation to use a skill that a good hitter (and not necessarily a good bunter) can grasp and employ.

Have you considered coaching? As the head coach you can call any play you want......

 

[YOCOACH]

If you can do it all (swing/bunt/show-pull back) then you are very dangerous!!!!!!!! If you are a 1 trick pony than you are predictable. Now, if you bat .600 with 20HRs then forget everything I said.

The girl I was talking about as a first year 14u "B" TB player last year can do it all and carried a .589 BA with 17 HRs.

 

[CentralHBC]

The value of the short game

Echoing Osric's plea, I'd like to hear from other seasoned and knowledgeable coaches, expanding to the short game in general. I feel a lot of coaches try to "force" a slap game when they don't have players with the speed to get down the line fast enough. If you want to get the infield moving, why not fake a bunt on the first or second pitch, or have a hitter pull back a bunt and swing away. How important is it to have the right kind of speed to make slapping an effective strategy? I generally prefer to see hitters hit (even pitchers, Osric, being a national league guy...)

Personally, I'm a huge fan of the short game, bunting, fake bunt hitting, slapping, push bunts, drag bunts, bunt/slap/bunts, etc. However, I totally understand what most of you are feeling with coaches that overbunt. Forcing the short game on your players does not work and will never work. As a program, we work all situations with every player, but that doesn't mean that we use them on a regular basis with every player. We use the scenario that gives our team AND the individual player the best chance to be successful. Case in point, if you run over a 3.1 to 1B...there isn't any reason for you to bunt unless we're strictly sacrificing a runner over.

In my opinion, the short game comes down to situational execution. Something I think a lot of coaches do too often is sacrifice a lead off hit to 2B. Bunting in that situation actually lessens your average run output over the course of a game. If you need to make sure you move the runner, most teams would be better off running fake bunt hit (it prevents a force at 2B because the second basemen is moving towards 1B for bunt coverage), it opens a new hitting lane for the batter (the 5-6 becomes huge with a moving SS to 2B in bunt coverage), and it also gives your player a chance to hit a line drive or a double if they get a hanger to hit.

Ultimately, I think that more teams would benefit from working on situational hitting and bunting, instead of just learning how to hit, or how to bunt. Developing an offense is more about timely execution, than it is about mechanics. I would love to see teams work on hitting a GB to 2B with a runner at 3B instead of trying to bunt them home, or laying down a drag bunt against the right defense in situations to start innings. Again, all of this is just personal preference, but that's why forums exist!

 

[Doug Romrell]

I can understand the use of the short game if you keep the opposing team from hitting. That didn't work yesterday for our HS team. A team we were suppose to beat won (something like 6-11). It was basically us using the short game against them using mainly a hitting game.

Personally, I prefer the hitting game with very few bunts, especially when you've got some great hitters. However, that's just me and my hitting bias. The head coach has his philosophy and he's in charge. I do, however, believe he bears at least some of the blame for the loss for over-using bunting.

 

[bucket pinata]

Looks to me you scored plenty, D lost that game not the O. Cant win many games giving up an 11 burger playing quality Fast pitch. Sorry about the L Doug.

I can understand the use of the short game if you keep the opposing team from hitting. That didn't work yesterday for our HS team. A team we were suppose to beat won (something like 6-11). It was basically us using the short game against them using mainly a hitting game.

Personally, I prefer the hitting game with very few bunts, especially when you've got some great hitters. However, that's just me and my hitting bias. The head coach has his philosophy and he's in charge. I do, however, believe he bears at least some of the blame for the loss for over-using bunting.