I just don't get the bunting obsession

[YOCOACH]

Bunting, imo, is in a similar category. Some kids will excel at bunting. Some should know how to do it because "you never know". But for some, it is just a waste of time to have them work on a skill when their time could be better spent improving other areas of the game with skills that they will use frequently.

Osric, while I agree with your basic premise of this, I disagree that this isn't something to spend time practicing and improving. Just like righty slapping. It's not something that is used very often or maybe not at all. However, it just gives the players another offensive weapon with which the coach can use in certain game situations.

A perfect example. Last year our team was down by one run (2-1) in the quarters of a tournament. Both pitchers were very strong and hitting their spots. There was 1 out and we had runners on 2nd and 3rd. #4 batter came up, showed bunt, pulled back and righty slapped the ball (hard grounder) in the 3-4 gap out to RF. Both runners scored and we ended up winning the game to go to the Championship. Everyone expected the team to go for the tie but because I taught them how to slap, we had the go ahead run score. It's just another weapon in the arsenal. Had they not practiced it, they would not have been able to execute it.

 

[gatorcoach]

Did anyone happen to see last year WCWS when Ricketts laid down a perfect bunt for hit while UT 3B was 4 steps behind bag? Lead to a run in a game that was very very close. Not saying you should bunt your 3/4 hitters often, but there is a time for it and EVERYONE should know how to lay a bunt down. IMO

Like many have said, it is just another tool on "O".

 

[Country Boy]

Disclaimer first: I was raised on American League baseball. I like the DH. I like to see players swing the bat. I like to see balls scream through the infield or over an outfielder's head. I love to hit.

My daughter is on the jr. high team this year. I get to go to a double header on Sunday. The coach calls for bunts no less than 15 times per game. In 6 plate appearances, my daughter got the bunt sign 4 times. It doesn't seem to matter what the situation is. Runners can be on any base, or completely absent from the bases and he calls for a bunt. Runners on 2nd and 3rd with #4 batter up...bunt. Previous 2 batters drill the ball to the outfield? time for a bunt.

I'm in the stands biting my tongue...I know different coaches have different styles. And I don't have any problem with the strategic bunt. Slow runner on 1st that needs to get into scoring position; I'm good with that. Close game with a good runner on 3rd? Sure. I'm not anti-bunt, I just prefer to use it for specific purposes rather than as the meat and potatoes of the offense.

Mid-way through the game, the score-keeper leans back to me and asks: "does this make sense to you? Why is he bunting the #4 batter with runners in scoring position?" "I don't know," I reply. "Maybe it is just early in the year and he is trying to find out who can lay the bunt down with consistency." Dad behind me leans forward: "nope...it was like this all last year."

My daughter has hit over .500 in each of the past 3 years. In regular season, she has struck out a total of 4 times in the same time frame. This year, she has 1 hit in 3 games (a bunt) and 2 strike outs. Her confidence is in the crapper. She gets the bunts down and almost beats the throw (which is why I think she keeps getting the bunt sign...if she were out by a country mile, then the coach may not keep having her bunt) but in the end there is an out at first, and daughter gets more frustrated.

We are going to start going to the cage after school and work on changing her hitting philosophy. I've always taught her to be patient at the plate...when there are no strikes, you look for that pitch that is in her zone...if ump calls a low or high ball a strike, that is fine; she has 2 more pitches to drive. But now, (coach usually waits until the 2nd pitch to put the bunt on) she has 1 pitch to drive. She'll need to expand her zone if she wants to swing the bat because otherwise there is a good chance she'll be told to bunt.

So, since this is in the coaching part of the forum, someone please explain to me why the bunt should replace hitting as the dominant offensive philosophy. What is the benefit of playing for 1 run when you are in 'big inning' situations? I see this kind of thinking in many teams. Is there a justifiable reason for this, or is it just coaches trying to micro-manage to show that they can sneak in runs?

Ok. You want a serious reply? If you knew anything about FP softball, you would understand how ridiculous your statement about bunting replacing hitting is. Because the opposite is actually true. Bunting is being slowly (?) replaced by hitting.

You want strategy? And you think sending a hitter up to swing away is strategy? Pretend you are a coach and your team is on defense. Which is harder? Defending against a hitter or a bunter? Bunt defense is much more challenging for players. How many runners are on? Bunt down 1B or 3B? Steal attempt from 1B and 3B races in to field bunt, is 3B covered? By whom?

You admit that the coach is calling for a bunt in any situation. So you prefer he only do it in the expected situations? When the D is playing in? You say that you prefer to use the bunt for specific purposes. Based on how many years of coaching experience is that?

At the JH level, I would guess that a good bunting team can beat a good hitting team 4 out of 5 times. The pressure is always on with a bunting team. The D has to be perfect. Hitting slumps can happen. Bunting slumps less often.

In my experience, teams that bunt a lot also tend to play top tier infield defense because it's what they emphasize in practice. Good bunting teams are typically good fielding teams. They tend to handle pressure well. That good D works against your good hitting team also.

Additionally, I tend to see good bunting teams as being the most advanced base runners also. Bunting is all about pressuring the Defense. So bunting teams are taught to be aggressive and take advantage. Bunting teams don't think station to station base running like some good hitting teams do. Baseball has ruined baserunning with the emphasis on HR hitting. In my opinion.

As to strategy. You mention a situation with runners on 2nd and 3rd after they drilled the ball. #4 batter up. What is the defense expecting? Everybody backing up a little? So hit away and do exactly what everyone expects? Or do the unexpected? Hit a towering flyball on the Infield or lay down a safety squeeze? 3B panics and throws the ball to RF corner. Both runners score and batter lumbers into 3B.

It may be just me, but I fear a slapper much more than I do a big hitter. Big hitters will get their hits, but they will also give me easy outs. Slappers are a hard out nearly every time. Then when they get on base, they occupy my defense. A slapper can lead off a game and end it. I have seen defenses make 2 errors on a slapper and they don't recover mentally the rest of the game. Pressure, pressure, presssure.

Parents love big hits. But the JH softball I typically see, big hits are often flyballs to the middle of the OF. I see very few HS HR's. Don't know that I've ever seen one in JH. Good pitching can typically nullify good hitting. Good pitching cannot nullify good bunting. In my experience.

So if you want to score lots of runs, make the other team look bad, develop a great infield, run bases well, and pressure the other team; bunt a lot. Want to make me smile in the other dugout? Hit away. The odds are that you don't have 9 D1 bound hitters.

Want me to act less like a jerk? Then don't come on here criticizing a coach that is winning games using a strategy that differs from what you have developed sitting in the stands. Ask questions, by all means. I will help all I can. But don't look to me to validate your mistaken belief system. It requires an open mind to learn. Yours isn't based on the opening post.

 

[Osric]

A perfect example. Last year our team was down by one run (2-1) in the quarters of a tournament. Both pitchers were very strong and hitting their spots. There was 1 out and we had runners on 2nd and 3rd. #4 batter came up, showed bunt, pulled back and righty slapped the ball (hard grounder) in the 3-4 gap out to RF. Both runners scored and we ended up winning the game to go to the Championship. Everyone expected the team to go for the tie but because I taught them how to slap, we had the go ahead run score. It's just another weapon in the arsenal. Had they not practiced it, they would not have been able to execute it.

This is the stuff I understand, and the stuff I'd like to see a whole lot more than the standard bunt (and something I think would be much more effective than the standard bunt). There is a specific tactical situation to use a skill that a good hitter (and not necessarily a good bunter) can grasp and employ.

 

[gatorcoach]

You must show you can get a bunt down before the pull back will work. We would not charge a show/pul back if the batter has not shown she can bunt

 

[Coach JV]

WOW!!!!!!!!

Bunting is a situational offensive weapon. We are often criticized
for not bunting enough. Every player on my team knows how to bunt
and depending on the score runners etc. every player has been asked to bunt
regardless of the situation. Playing 18U last fall, I used the suicide squeeze
effectively and often as I found many teams were not prepared to defend it.
I looked up stats before posting so for all you stats junkies, here is what I have:

In 45 games played we attempted to execute squeeze 11X.
We scored on 10 of 11 attempts. IMHO this is a money play
that requires the right (aggressive and fearless) runner on 3B.
I was fortunate that on 8 attempts, my best 2 BR were on 3B.

In a close game bunting is a great way to manufacture a run
especially when the leadoff of an inning gets on base. FP is a very fast game
at the higher levels and bunting is great way to utilize speed as it does put
an immense amount of pressure on a defense especially with runners on base

 

[Osric]

Ok. You want a serious reply? If you knew anything about FP softball, you would understand how ridiculous your statement about bunting replacing hitting is. Because the opposite is actually true. Bunting is being slowly (?) replaced by hitting.

...

Want me to act less like a jerk? Then don't come on here criticizing a coach that is winning games using a strategy that differs from what you have developed sitting in the stands. Ask questions, by all means. I will help all I can. But don't look to me to validate your mistaken belief system. It requires an open mind to learn. Yours isn't based on the opening post.

At least this response attempts to answer the questions, but you still manage to come off as a jerk. "If I knew anything about FP Softball?" I've coached FP for 6 years. I go to coaching conventions. I run a division in the local league. No, I'm not a college level coach, nor do I want to be. I'm a guy who helps kids learn the sport. Nowhere did I state that bunting was replacing hitting (again putting words in my mouth). I posed a specific instance which mirrors many other coaching philosophies that I've seen, and then asked for someone (with more experience and/or different viewpoints) for the reasoning behind this. My post was followed by other people who were curious about the same thing...the next 4 posts were others asking for a discussion on this. I guess all of us don't know "anything about FP"? I guess all of our thoughts are "ridiculous"?

Want me to act less like a jerk? Then don't come on here criticizing a coach that is winning games using a strategy that differs from what you have developed sitting in the stands. Ask questions, by all means. I will help all I can. But don't look to me to validate your mistaken belief system. It requires an open mind to learn. Yours isn't based on the opening post.

A 3-1 record against weak teams does not a winning coach make. You again assume that my viewpoint comes from sitting in the stands. The fact that I post on THIS forum alone should inform you that I'm not just the weekend dad who sits around complaining. It should inform you that I spend just a little bit of time learning the game. But once again, rather than using common sense, or asking for my background, you make assumptions. You say I need an open mind to learn "based on my opening post", I don't have have one. How you get that opinion when I asked for other people's input is beyond me. Again, I think, you are trying to justify your own position by belittling others. Do you think that if someone disagrees with you, then they are close minded?

I would suggest that next time a question is posed, no matter how "ridiculous" you find it, that you take a minute to consider that other people have viewpoints that may be different from yours. If you have reasons which you find relevant to the discussion, please feel free to share your experience. But if the purpose of your post is to belittle people asking for help or opinions, then keep your thoughts to yourself. Because you come off as a jerk when you put words in other people's mouths or assume facts that you simply are ignorant of.

 

[cuzmail]

Did anyone happen to see last year WCWS when Ricketts laid down a perfect bunt for hit while UT 3B was 4 steps behind bag? Lead to a run in a game that was very very close. Not saying you should bunt your 3/4 hitters often, but there is a time for it and EVERYONE should know how to lay a bunt down. IMO

Like many have said, it is just another tool on "O".

Did it last weekend we played. Our 3 hole hitter put one over the fence at her last at bat. Next at bat she laid one down. They were playing her deep in both the IF and OF. She easily made it to 1B and she isn't what I would consider fast either.

Always remember that in order to score a run you have to have someone touch 1B.

 

[29dad]

Had a rather amusing "bunting situation" last weekend. DD played on a team as a pickup player. Anyway coach decided to sacrifice bunt #8 batter with a runner on first base and one out. Perhaps ordinarily it might not be such a bad strategy, but given that in this game we were only playing with 8 players and had an automatic out for the vacant number 9 batter, it didn't work out so well.

 

[James Smith]

, way to much thought needs to be put into this game.