FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Consider the notion of the bottom hand catching rain drops beyond extension.
Hand Action at Contact
- Thread starter T.J.
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FiveFrameSwing
Banned
As you perform dry swings, imagine pitches to different locations … low/away, low/inside, high/inside, and even a down-the-middle mistake pitch.
For now, as you perform dry swings while stressing the functionality of the bottom hand, give the top hand the simple goal of wanting to get long through contact … as in extended in the direction of the pitch. At this time don’t give the top hand much more of a job than that. You'll have to trust that you have a top hand for now ... and as you cycle through this that should be the case.
A mental image of back-handing the ball will have you letting low pitches get deep … which is what you want. Have a focus on the bottom hand trying to find the ball from the start of the swing, and “releasing” through contact with ‘direction’. Shake hands with the bottom-hand at extension (i.e., at extension palm orientation is vertical instead of horizontal) … prepare to “catch rain” with the bottom hand after extension. Allow the lead arm to supernate/roll. Don’t force the ‘roll’, but don’t prevent it either … release it with direction.
Do not “pull hard through contact” with the bottom hand. That "late" bottom hand hammering action is a significant flaw seen with many young hitters here at DFP. That will only lead to a hard left turn, chicken winging, reduced overall power and more of an “around” swing (as opposed to an "out from" swing).
Play/experiment with different intensity levels of the top hand action as the bottom hand continues to “release” through contact with direction.
Take it to the cages and hit for an hour with a focus on the bottom-hand finding the ball and releasing through contact … as you experiment with the intensity level of the top hand.
Take it to the cages the next day ... and work the edges of the plate ... again with the focus on the bottom hand and playing with intensity levels of the top hand.
After a few days move on to the top hand.
For now, as you perform dry swings while stressing the functionality of the bottom hand, give the top hand the simple goal of wanting to get long through contact … as in extended in the direction of the pitch. At this time don’t give the top hand much more of a job than that. You'll have to trust that you have a top hand for now ... and as you cycle through this that should be the case.
A mental image of back-handing the ball will have you letting low pitches get deep … which is what you want. Have a focus on the bottom hand trying to find the ball from the start of the swing, and “releasing” through contact with ‘direction’. Shake hands with the bottom-hand at extension (i.e., at extension palm orientation is vertical instead of horizontal) … prepare to “catch rain” with the bottom hand after extension. Allow the lead arm to supernate/roll. Don’t force the ‘roll’, but don’t prevent it either … release it with direction.
Do not “pull hard through contact” with the bottom hand. That "late" bottom hand hammering action is a significant flaw seen with many young hitters here at DFP. That will only lead to a hard left turn, chicken winging, reduced overall power and more of an “around” swing (as opposed to an "out from" swing).
Play/experiment with different intensity levels of the top hand action as the bottom hand continues to “release” through contact with direction.
Take it to the cages and hit for an hour with a focus on the bottom-hand finding the ball and releasing through contact … as you experiment with the intensity level of the top hand.
Take it to the cages the next day ... and work the edges of the plate ... again with the focus on the bottom hand and playing with intensity levels of the top hand.
After a few days move on to the top hand.
Sorry...I had to leave to go to my 2nd job...you know...the one that pays for OIL and SOFTBALL (lol). I'm reading and catching up now.
Lately you've been eating a lot of popcorn....
While my popcorn is popping I will post some pics at/around contact:
Thanks Bass....but these pics don't show on my system.
Lots of duplicate frames in that GIF Rdb.
Okay...I'm seeing it now. Between these pics, ripken and the bat throwing posted by Bass I'm starting to understand the bottom hand at contact. Right after this "back hand" motion the hands rotate through extension to have the bottom hand "catching the rain"?
Additionally...regarding the bottom hand "finding the ball". When I read this "bottom hand finding the ball" I envision "knob to the ball". But that's not what you're saying...right? redhotcoach posted a nice video in the other thread of snapping the barrel....there's not much finding the ball with the bottom hand in those sequences. Or is it so quick and such a early & short portion of the sequence?
Re Bass...When do you see 'palm up,palm down' at contact or extension? In the bottom pic I consider his top hand "palm up"...and for the most part his bottom hand is "palm down"..this is the palm up - palm down position I was talking about. So I think I'm okay with that....and this pic obviously points of the action of the bottom hand...thanks!
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Excellent thread!! I have long thought that the hands have different but complimentary jobs throughout the swing. Bottom hand is directing the bat and controls the swing initially. Top hand is the driving force through contact. One of DDs previous coaches would often say "short too, long through". When I work with her I have changed this to "bottom too, top through".
As another way of looking at the wrist bend action in the Miggy picture, couldn't we consider the action of a bench press in weightlifting? In order to get the most force into the lift, the wrist will bend. This allows the bar to be in line with the forearm bone. If you do not bend the wrist, the back of the hand would remain in line with the forearm bone. When doing a bench press, this does not provide as much power or balance to the movement. The bent wrist maximizes the use of that power.
TJ - I still consider this as "palm up, palm down", but I have friendly discussions with another coach in our organization that considers that description as inaccurate. I consider that term as in contrast to the picture below, which is definitely not "palm up, palm down".
As another way of looking at the wrist bend action in the Miggy picture, couldn't we consider the action of a bench press in weightlifting? In order to get the most force into the lift, the wrist will bend. This allows the bar to be in line with the forearm bone. If you do not bend the wrist, the back of the hand would remain in line with the forearm bone. When doing a bench press, this does not provide as much power or balance to the movement. The bent wrist maximizes the use of that power.
TJ - I still consider this as "palm up, palm down", but I have friendly discussions with another coach in our organization that considers that description as inaccurate. I consider that term as in contrast to the picture below, which is definitely not "palm up, palm down".
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A few months ago I started a thread stating that DD was not following through after her swing. Ultimately, it was this "chicken wing" action you are talking about. She was pulling with her bottom hand through the swing. I took the advice of the great people here and focused on some things "upstream" and was able to help her correct the problem. Thanks to all that offered advice at that time!!
Here is the best example of throwing the bat:
This was a HR.
RDBass - I don't want to hijack this thread in anyway, just curious if you would consider this an "arm bar" swing?
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Cabrerra gets palm up/palm down early and maintains that orientation as the bottom hand seeks the ball. As you can see he does take the knob towards but NOT to the ball. Once He finds the ball with the handle/knob He releases the bottom hand to supinate(roll) through the ball at contact.
Some nice descriptions in here 5. I especially like this:
Play/experiment with different intensity levels of the top hand action as the bottom hand continues to “release” through contact with direction.
Take it to the cages and hit for an hour with a focus on the bottom-hand finding the ball and releasing through contact
For me this is all about owning their swing. Learning to make adjustments on their own so they can be responsible for cleaning up problems in their swing without coaching.
Some nice descriptions in here 5. I especially like this:
Play/experiment with different intensity levels of the top hand action as the bottom hand continues to “release” through contact with direction.
Take it to the cages and hit for an hour with a focus on the bottom-hand finding the ball and releasing through contact
For me this is all about owning their swing. Learning to make adjustments on their own so they can be responsible for cleaning up problems in their swing without coaching.
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