- Jun 8, 2016
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Throwing a pitch which the batter won’t swing at 97 out of 100 times is just dumb..
Greg Maddux on 0-2 “Waste Pitches”
- Thread starter Cornbread
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- Jun 1, 2015
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Totally get that and agree. As a coach, it annoys me. As an umpire, it annoys me even more. It's more the guts some catchers have to set up WELL outside where they know a (reasonable) strike zone has a chance of being, call a pitch there, frame it for a solid 3 seconds, and then complain when they don't get the call. I had an 18U tournament last weekend where a girl did just that, and THEN looked back at me as if to say, "Are you serious? You're not calling that?" It took a lot not to say something smart, but I opted to just look at her, then back at the pitcher.
I get a lot of blues have very liberal interpretations of the strike zone - I'm one of them at times - I've been working to keep my zone more consistent regardless of the level I'm working with. I just wish catchers (and the coaches calling the pitches) would be a TINY bit more reasonable with their thoughts. Set up 2-3" off the outside? I'm cool with that. Set up on the next field? A road too far IMO.
- Jun 8, 2016
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They can set up where they want (within the rules) and it shouldn’t bother you one bit. They just shouldn’t bitch about a strike not being called if the pitcher hits her spotTotally get that and agree. As a coach, it annoys me. As an umpire, it annoys me even more. It's more the guts some catchers have to set up WELL outside where they know a (reasonable) strike zone has a chance of being, call a pitch there, frame it for a solid 3 seconds, and then complain when they don't get the call. I had an 18U tournament last weekend where a girl did just that, and THEN looked back at me as if to say, "Are you serious? You're not calling that?" It took a lot not to say something smart, but I opted to just look at her, then back at the pitcher.
I get a lot of blues have very liberal interpretations of the strike zone - I'm one of them at times - I've been working to keep my zone more consistent regardless of the level I'm working with. I just wish catchers (and the coaches calling the pitches) would be a TINY bit more reasonable with their thoughts. Set up 2-3" off the outside? I'm cool with that. Set up on the next field? A road too far IMO.
Every situation is different. What type of hitter? What's the score? Runners on base? How did you get to 0-2? If throwing out of the strike zone is a waste pitch, then I believe in waste pitches. I don't consider a CB 2 balls off the plate or rise ball above the letters a waste pitch when you have an aggressive number 3 hitter 0-2. Number 3 hitters generally don't want to go down looking. So, you use that to your advantage. On the other hand, if it's the number 8 batter that just swung 4 inches under the rise ball for strike two then she is getting another rise ball.
- May 17, 2012
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Initially I thought Maddux was referring to a waste pitch as an intentionally thrown "ball" (two inches or two feet off the plate). It seems Bill agreed and said he didn't intentionally throw a "ball".
Now I am a little confused on what a "waste" pitch is in the context of what Maddux was talking about. Surely we aren't advocating that every ball is just a strike that missed?
radness
Possibilities & Opportunities!
- Dec 13, 2019
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imo interpretation is waste pitch intentionally not to be a strike.
And/Or
Could also be considered a
Chase Pitch.
Would not consider a pitch on the edges of the perimeter to be a waste pitch.
Because those can possibly be considered strikes.
Even a pitch one or two softballs off the edge of the plate is still reachable and not considered a Chase pitch.
This conversation is interesting because where you can locate the drop hitting the dirt can be considered a pitch someone should never swing at however they often do.
And/Or
Could also be considered a
Chase Pitch.
Would not consider a pitch on the edges of the perimeter to be a waste pitch.
Because those can possibly be considered strikes.
Even a pitch one or two softballs off the edge of the plate is still reachable and not considered a Chase pitch.
This conversation is interesting because where you can locate the drop hitting the dirt can be considered a pitch someone should never swing at however they often do.
Cannonball
Ex "Expert"
- Feb 25, 2009
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Doesn't it matter how you define "waste a pitch?" For me, that means nothing over the plate or, in softball, one to two balls out or in or up or down. What it means is that my pitcher, if they miss, will not miss over the white of the plate. What it means is that this pitch has to be something that looks hittable. That is how I define a "waste pitch."
- Jun 8, 2016
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Most players don’t only swing at strikes. Conversely most players will not swing at a pitch which never looks like it has a chance of being a strike. In MLB you will see a lot pitchers throw sliders which start over the plate and then end up a few balls (or more) off the plate (typically away) hoping for weak contact or a swing and miss. On the other hand somebody like Maddux, with his control, would sometimes start a pitch off the plate and have it paint the corner with the hope of getting a called third strike. Pitches don’t move as much in softball so adjust accordingly.
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Waste pitches are dumb because only very bad hitters might chase them, and you can probably get those hitters out in other ways.
Throwing 0-2 pitches down the middle to good hitters is also dumb. I don't consider it a waste to throw a pitch that's out of the zone, but still hittable. If you know the hitter's tendencies, you can probably find some weaknesses to exploit. Same for knowing if the umpire has a certain strike zone.
I'm not annoyed at an 0-2 base hit, but seeing a pitcher groove one because she's afraid to throw a single pitch for a ball is worse. We lost a game because of that before.
Throwing 0-2 pitches down the middle to good hitters is also dumb. I don't consider it a waste to throw a pitch that's out of the zone, but still hittable. If you know the hitter's tendencies, you can probably find some weaknesses to exploit. Same for knowing if the umpire has a certain strike zone.
I'm not annoyed at an 0-2 base hit, but seeing a pitcher groove one because she's afraid to throw a single pitch for a ball is worse. We lost a game because of that before.
- Aug 21, 2008
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Let me clarify: I am not advocating throwing any pitch down the middle, 0-2 count or 0-0 count.
I would start with a dropball at the knees. If the batter swung or the ump called it, my next pitch would be lower than the knees. If they swing or the ump calls it, the next pitch will be even lower. Hell, I'd roll the ball to catcher if they'd swing or the ump would call it.
I would start with a dropball at the knees. If the batter swung or the ump called it, my next pitch would be lower than the knees. If they swing or the ump calls it, the next pitch will be even lower. Hell, I'd roll the ball to catcher if they'd swing or the ump would call it.
