Finding a Good Pitching Coach

[ServicePeasant]

Hello,

So, I need some help. Our 13 y.o. has only been playing for 16 months and been with her current pitching coach for a year: He has actually pitched both baseball and softball and we are fairly happy with him. The first several weeks he taught her specific drills: When she mastered the ones she'd been given she moved on. She didn't get to throw one ball for about the first 6 weeks. She has pretty good control of her fastball (can throw over the plate with her eyes closed), good spin, and can consistently throw 50mph without too much effort: She is nearly 6'0" tall, so I think that helps. The coach has just advanced her to a CU and a drop ball: She does drills and throws 7 days a week (she know she has a lot of catching up to do to get on par with girls her age).

However, she just got on her first travel ball team and her new coach insists that her mechanics are "all wrong" and that the pitching coach is "ripping us off". He wants to send us to a coach he prefers in SW Mississippi. His other pitcher goes to that coach and the girls mechanics are a bit different, more like the slam the door shut type pitch..very violent looking (could be that she is very small and putting every ounce of herself into the ball delivery though too). Now this coach seems to be on his toes in most other areas and uses many of the same drills DD learned at Stefni Lotief's Cajun camp this past summer. He seems to genuinely care about the girls and stresses homework/grades first.

We are really new to all this and just want to do what is best for our daughter's health, safety, and playing career (even if it stops at HS level). We just want her to safely have fun and reach her fullest potential, whatever that may be. So this leaves my husband and I not knowing what to do. Our dd had some shoulder issues when she taught herself to pitch last year by watching Ernie Parker videos: Her original pitching style is very much like what we saw from the team's starting pitcher. However, the whole time with her current coach she has had zero issues with shoulder or arm pain. What the current coach has DD doing looks very much like what we see a large number of pitchers on the "model pitcher" sticky doing (of the ones I watched probably closest to Kenzie Fowler UofA)...well minus the giant lunge (she just won't use those long legs yet..kinda just strides).

My big question is then....how do you know that your daughter is with the right coach and being taught safe, correct mechanics? I gave up trying to get any advice from the parents of other pitchers locally: Those conversations usually end up being all about their daughter and how fast she throws or how they wished their daughter could be as big as ours. They are usually very "helpful" when they find out she's only played two seasons, but once they see her pitch they get stand-offish. I realize softball is a competitive sport, but gosh some folks get a bit too personal with the competition.

Over the summer, we sent her to a local camp where one of the "coaches" was Harvard pitcher Laura Riccardone. She really didn't have time to evaluate her properly since she had 22 girls each day. She also couldn't do any lessons since she injured her knee post-season and was supposed to be staying off it. She recommended we contact her former pitching coach, Dr. Sherry Werner. I did email the good Doctor over the weekend to see if she had any recommendations, but do not know if or when she will have time to answer.

Honestly, we are very frustrated and confused. I have been reading this board and watching videos like crazy, but just am not sure about anything right now. We don't want to switch coaches if we don't have to, but do not want to keep her somewhere she may not be getting the best instruction either. From what I know, her coach has only had one notable player in about 10 years of coaching. So, what do you guys think? Stay, go, or look elsewhere altogether? Does anybody know of any good pitching coaches in the SE Louisiana/SW Mississippi area?

Hope I didn't ramble too much. Thanks in advance for any advice or input you may have to offer: I, well we...my husband and I, ....sincerely appreciate it. Have a great day.

 

[MandM]

My two cents- you would be amazed at the things people say about pitching- who claim to be knowledgeable- but who do not have their facts striaght. Therefore educating yourself is the number one priority and I think its great that you have asked for the opinions of the experts on this site. As a newbie, I have learned ALOT from cruising the postings- in particular, the postings that describe IR mechanics from the 12-6 oclock position and the follow-thru, these will correlate well with what you see on the expert videos. There are also some DVDs which approach the IR mechanics more effectively than Ernie PArker, like Cheri Kempf's DVD and one also from the guy at Oregon. The IR mechanics have helped my daughter pitch more effectively and (what appears to me anyway) effortlessly, with better results. It seems to me that the progression of pitches your daughter is learning is appropriate- if she likes him and what he teaches fit what is the current wisdom- stay with him. Maybe to make sure and to offer a bone to the coach, go watch the other person give a lesson- see some of the other pitchers style- if it doesn't match up to what you have learned to be correct, say no thanks. People on this site have been very effective in providing feedback for pitchers- you could also consider posting a video to ensure she is on the right track.

Good luck!

 

[sluggers]

You gotta love parents...only a crazy parent would ask, "My DD is 13YOA, has only been pitching for 16 months, throws 50MPH, has no shoulder pain, and can throw strikes with her eyes closed. Should I change pitching coaches?"

My big question is then....how do you know that your daughter is with the right coach and being taught safe, correct mechanics

To someone who hasn't been around pitching, it seems very mysterious. It really isn't--every part of the pitching motion has a simple, logical explanation.

The easiest way is to video tape your DD, post it on Youtube, put a link to it in a message her, and then ask for comments. (You can put it up anonymously.) You'll get some responses from very knowledgeable people like Amy, Boardmember, Hal and Screwball. If the responses say, "She needs to improve her form a little," then your coach is doing great. If the response is, "You have to tear her down and start over again", that will tell you something different.

Judging from what you wrote, it sounds like your DD is getting pretty good pitching instruction. "Slam the door" pitching went out with disco music and platform shoes.

Here is something of real value to teach your DD, the "smile and nod". When someone comes up to her and suggests ways for her to "improve" her pitching, she needs to put on that big, beautiful young girl smile, nod vigorously, and then ignore what she was told.

 

[undergroundga]

I am new to things myself. My dd has only been pitching about 4 mos, but i think you answered your own questions in your post. What you are looking for is confirmation. For what it's worth(and that"s not much) I think you are good where you are. If she is happy and pain free sounds good to me. In my limited experience everyone is an expert and knows the "best way", it's up to you to educate yourself(which it sounds like you are doing) and to wade through all the advice everyone gives.
Posting video on here is good advice. You will get a plethera of opinions and ideas. And the Cheri Kempf videoand book are excellent( I just bought these and can't put them down.
I don't get why parents are so stand-offish, especially teammates. That really bothers me and don't look forward to it. I love talking to parents and getting ideas from them. And hearing what they are doing to reach their goals, especially if they are doing something that works for their dd.

 

[coachdan]

In my experience there is more bad instruction out there that there is good instruction when it come to pitching mechanics....so read up on this site and visit several different pitching coaches and listen to what each has to say. Then see if what they are teaching stands up to what you see on high speed video. Good video to purchase is the Hillhouse video, he is very good at explaining the correct mechanics and also why some of the other mechanics that are taught are bad. Good Luck and get some video and post on this site...there are some very good instructors that visit this site and can give feedback on video.

 

[joemcq51]

Honestly, read your post as if you were an outsider. You would have your answer. I'll give you another parents opinion if it will help. You ready?

Your 6' tall 13 yoa DD, has been pitching for a year. She has a cruising speed in the low 50's and great control. She has started learning how to mix her speeds and throw a movement pitch. Now, someone is trying to get your DD to go to a pitching coach they are fond of. The style the other coach is teaching is different than what your DD currently uses. You have tried that style previously, and your DD had shoulder issues....Need I continue?

I would respectfully inform the coach that you are very happy with your current PC. I would ask if that will be a problem for the coach as the season progresses. Just because she throws a different style than the coach wants, will her mound time be effected? For only pitching a year, you need to make sure your DD gets as much game time as possible. Right now, she probably needs innings so she is comfortable throwing to real hitters. Good luck.

 

[ServicePeasant]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm glad that even though I am a definitely a crazy softball parent, I'm not blind and stupid too...lol. My husband spends A LOT of time practicing with our daughter (I am a good human target and that's about it) and also has spend hours watching instructional videos and ESPN replay college softball games. He feels she is on the right track. I go to her pitching coach and all her games and watch and my gut feeling is the PC is a decent guy...maybe not 100% right, but definitely knows a heck of a lot more than we ever could. It was actually hard to not let our jaws visibly drop when the TB coach basically aggressively attacked us the way he did. But hey, I am new, so didn't want to discount his suggestion as without merit prior to at least giving it some consideration.

My husband tells me he has a video of her last game pitched somewhere: We'll see if we can find and edit it later tonight. She has her toe surgery tomorrow morning, so will be off her feet for a couple days...so I hope I can find it. If we get a video up I will let you guys have at it, since it's much easier to critique something you can actually see.

I hope the travel coach ends up being professional about it if we choose to pass on his suggestion. We may go for one lesson to his guy...just to see, but don't want to throw any kinks into our daughter's pitch either. It'll be a shame if he chooses to be unfriendly about the whole thing. We have a real shortage of good travel clubs in my area, so have had a tough time getting her on one. All the teams had tryouts on the same two days....so had to choose only two to attend. Their are a ton of teams in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, but those are a long drive each week on top of the cost to play. I'm not saying that we won't drive for the right team, but need to find them first. Heck her PC is an hours drive twice a week and she was going to try out for a travel club over his way, but they had a full roster and didn't need anybody this year.

We know she needs playing time, which is why she needs to be on the travel team. We home school, but she is eligible to play on the local school teams. However, the local junior high school team is coached by a couple teachers that really don't know what they are doing and force the girls to do things incorrectly (watched their practices...it was painful even with as little as I know). She wasn't ready for the high school try-outs this year...maybe in the spring. The recreation league teams teams she's been on and the All Star team have all been parents trying to build a team around their daughter: That doesn't equal playing time for anybody else at their DD's position though and it seems to be mostly the pitcher's parents coaching.

One last thing...As to ignoring bad suggestions...Everyone at my house is taught what I like to call Madagascar Penguin diplomacy..."Just smile and wave...smile and wave" then as soon as they leave get back to business. We thank them for thier input and incorporate the good suggestions and ditch the bad. I never outright ignore anyone because you never know what you can learn from being open to suggestions. However, I have met a few folks who put me into selective hearing mode when I see them.

I checked out Mr. Hillhouse's website and we are going to watch some of his videos tonight after dinner. Maybe that will help answer some of our questions as well.

Thanks again....

 

[undergroundga]

You can find some good video with Hillhouse on Fastpitch.TV.
It sounds to me like you have a good grip on things, especially other people's opinions. I hope things work out w/coach, despite their rank as coach, most aren't professional at all.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I base a lot of what I teach on what I see in an overhand throw.There is no slamming the door or violent follow through, when throwing a ball.

If you really want to upset the locals, teach your DD (darling daughter) to hit.

People are afraid that she is going to take their kid's spot, plus you home school. That is another thing that they don't understand. By the way, I have 2 students that home school. I wish that my kids would have had that opportunity. Seven hours of work, that is done in less than 1/2 the time, would have been perfect for our active life style. One girl is 16 and is on the rodeo circuit about full time, she just started softball lessons with me, but made the 18U team that she tried out for. She has significant foot speed.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing some video.

 

[ServicePeasant]

I think in our case part of it could be a height issue. I am 6'0", my husband 6'4", our sons are 6'5", 6'8", and our daughter 5'11" tall. A lot of time the parents that get stand-offish begin by telling us how great their daughter would be if she had our daughter's size. How it must be so much easier for our daughter with those long arms and legs. They seem to forget the fact that our daughter has invested a minimum of 7 hours a week every week practicing outside of team practices...since she began playing. She knows to catch up and excel she has to work twice as hard: It was her decision not ours...we are just here to support her.

Another part may be where we live or the fact that she has principally been playing rec ball till now. Also lastly, it could be the specific parents and how competitive they are. Good example of this one and things like this seem to happen a lot.....We had one set of parents that were really friendly and even sat with us at the travel ball tryouts. We asked them a ton of questions about their daughter and as usual didn't say much about ours unless answering a question. Turns out they were the parents of the previous season's starting pitcher.

We chatted along and commented on the great catches happening on the field for nearly two hours. All was well and they were cool with us till they lined up all the girls who had listed pitcher as one of their positions. The coach teamed all the pitchers with a catcher and had them start throwing practice pitches. When that was over only three of ten girls were left standing (their daughter, our daughter, and one other girl) their mood changed and they suddenly moved off the bleachers. Then the coach brought out the radar gun and clocked the three pitching to batters (the other parents ran over and watched the radar gun for all three girls).

My husband and I remained seated: Our DD hates us to stand where she can see us while pitching. Anyway, since she is very rarely ever clocked I asked the other couple if they had seen our daughter's pitch speeds: I'm kind of slow at picking up the iceberg vibes. Anyway, the mother barely looked at me and said, "Oh 43 or 44 I think, I wasn't really paying attention. Did you see our daughter's one really fast pitch it was 60." I thanked her and sat back down and later the coach told us that our DD had averaged 50mph with a couple over 55.

Anyway, I am sure everyone has different experiences and there are a ton of great parents out there. We have met a couple here or there, especially connected with one team in Walker. I am hoping for the best since it is nice to be able to openly discuss a child's performance without it having to be so darned personal. It's about the kids, not ego or status. I am a sucker for helping kids and even bought a few girls helmets and bats this past season. I guess I just don't understand folks like this and just need to focus on not ending up being one of them....lol.