door knocking knuckles

[jbooth]

Who was the first hitter or instructor who suggested the door knocking knuckles, was it during the astroturf days of the 1970's, and what is the science behind the advantages behind this grip.

The alignment of the knuckles is NOT the critical factor.

The critical factor is that the pressure while holding the bat, is felt at the base of the fingers of both hands, across the top of the palm and NOT deep into the palm.

The knuckle alignment is then mostly a matter of personal comfort. However, the alignment does also effect how the forearms and wrists get the bat to the ball.

There are 3 types of common grips; the box, the knocker, and the ring.

Here they are;

Box (very common)

Ring (most common) I don't have a photo of the ring grip. It would have the top hand knuckles moved over to the black line, as the arrow shows.

Knockers (least common)

The critical element is that the top hand palm start out pretty much facing the pitcher and then be pretty much facing the sky at contact. The bottom forearm and wrist will then have to react accordingly to get to the proper contact position.

From my observations of MLB hitters, very few literally line up the knocker knuckles. They are either in a full box, or the ring grip.

Hank Aaron actually used none of the above. He overlapped the box. This causes a very wristy swing, which is what he said he had.
It forces the bottom forearm to roll, in order to get the top hand in the correct position at contact.

Hank

 

[pstein]

Grip and stance are the two most over-coached portions of the swing. As long as you keep the barrel out of the palms and have a decent spine angle, you'll be fine.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Curious how many young girls have you worked with this type of advice ? I think one of the greatest softball players to have ever played the game will disagree with you.

 

[Wellphyt]

"To hit the ball to the best advantage, I recommend an extremely firm grip, the pressure applied by the fingers and not against the palms. The bottom hand holds the bat as you would a hammer or a golf club, the index finger slightly open. Harry Walker was a good student of hitting and he figured the hands should be between three to eight inches from the body, and I'll buy that. But any further emphasis on hand position is not necessary. Where you hold them vertically will vary with the individual.

You can adjust to fit your needs. If you want to hit high balls better, if you're having trouble with them, you can raise your hands so that you will be a little quicker getting on top of the ball. But the hands are very much a matter of feel. Give five farm boys axes and you'll probably get five different hand positions. As long as the position allows you to hit naturally anything within the strike zone, you're all right." -- Ted Williams

I would caution against dictating to kids what their "style" should be. A hitter's style is very much an individual thing. I see so many girls today at tournaments that don't look natural at the plate. They don't have any rhythm. My approach is to encourage kids to experiment while offering them guidance. I don't just say, "Go experiment". I have them experiment within a set framework. For instance, IMO there is a benefit in having kids experiment within the framework of the three grips that jbooth illustrated.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Received this from a parent last night ... and it applies to Wellphyt's message above.

"What makes you so unique is that you have a goal in regards to what you want to achieve, but you don't use a cookie cutter approach to teaching it. You guide the individual to the goal based on their tendencies. You would think more coaches would do that based on just watching a professional baseball or softball game. In one game you can see over nine different approaches in style towards a common swing. I love that."

 

[SBFAMILY]

One of the first things we do with a young girl is give them a hammer and teach them how to use it.
This post is very true. Give five farm boys axes and you'll probably get five different hand positions. As long as the position allows you to hit naturally anything within the strike zone, you're all right." -- Ted Williams

Now try this with a young girl, and have a good laugh. They can't drive a nail and use the entire hand arm up and down. It is ugly. Next time you give a hitting lesson to a young girl, try it! This will make you think twice about grip not being important when you teach a female how to hit. Now there are some, like my sister who grew up on a farm, and used an axe, but they are rare.

 

[SBFAMILY]

FFS you are correct on Style. Watch Right View Pro, each have different styles, but many parents/coaches/ teachers/ get style and absolutes confused. Each lessson and kid is different, what works for some won't work for others. That is what makes a good teacher. At a current lesson, Howard Carrier watched a girl hit 5 soft toss balls. Stopped the lesson and told her after a game your arm hurts, you pull the ball. This kid played for one of the top travel teams in the state ( Lasers). Next hour of the lesson was on throwing. She was a catcher and he made tremendous improvements to her hitting and throwing. So the lesson was adjusted to what the kid needed. Next kid was tracking the ball to reduce K's. He used the new strobe light goggles. 10 games this kid has not been k's yet. So I agree no cookie cutter approach.

 

[Steve Huff]

The alignment of the knuckles is NOT the critical factor.

The critical factor is that the pressure while holding the bat, is felt at the base of the fingers of both hands, across the top of the palm and NOT deep into the palm.

The knuckle alignment is then mostly a matter of personal comfort. However, the alignment does also effect how the forearms and wrists get the bat to the ball.

There are 3 types of common grips; the box, the knocker, and the ring.

Here they are;

Box (very common)

Ring (most common) I don't have a photo of the ring grip. It would have the top hand knuckles moved over to the black line, as the arrow shows.

Knockers (least common)

The critical element is that the top hand palm start out pretty much facing the pitcher and then be pretty much facing the sky at contact. The bottom forearm and wrist will then have to react accordingly to get to the proper contact position.

From my observations of MLB hitters, very few literally line up the knocker knuckles. They are either in a full box, or the ring grip.

Hank Aaron actually used none of the above. He overlapped the box. This causes a very wristy swing, which is what he said he had.
It forces the bottom forearm to roll, in order to get the top hand in the correct position at contact.

Hank

I see no difference between the 1st and 2nd photos. To me the wedding ring alignment was aligning the knuckles with the wedding band. But I didn't define it. I agree that last photo is aligning the door knocking knuckles. But the the second photo to me should be between the first and last orientations.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I see no difference between the 1st and 2nd photos. To me the wedding ring alignment was aligning the knuckles with the wedding band. But I didn't define it. I agree that last photo is aligning the door knocking knuckles. But the the second photo to me should be between the first and last orientations.

What Jim is saying is “The critical factor is that the pressure while holding the bat, is felt at the base of the fingers of both hands, across the top of the palm and NOT deep into the palm.” He's spot on.

He goes on to state “The knuckle alignment is then mostly a matter of personal comfort”. He's spot on again.

Jim also mentions how alignment is important in terms of “how the forearms and wrists get the bat to the ball” … and for me, this is more about the setting of the angles and simply having the knuckle alignment be whatever it is for those angles.

For me personally ... I observe that my door knocking knuckles of my top hand are aligned with the wedding ring on the bottom hand. However it's just an observation ... it is just a 'result' of of my actual grip on the bat (independent of any alignment orientation) and of setting the angles. For me, the knuckle orientation is a 'result' and I do not have an intent to set a particular knuckle orientation.

 

[jbooth]

I see no difference between the 1st and 2nd photos. To me the wedding ring alignment was aligning the knuckles with the wedding band. But I didn't define it. I agree that last photo is aligning the door knocking knuckles. But the the second photo to me should be between the first and last orientations.

I'm confused. Yes, the top two photos are the same. I noted that. I put the black line and arrow on the second one to show where the top knuckles would be for the "ring" grip.