Did the umpire make the right call?

[fpdad5]

Situation: 2 strikes on my batter and my batter is in the very front of the batters box closest to the pitcher. The pitcher threw a drop ball that entered the batters strike zone at waist level and then proceeded to drop to the ground while moving over home plate. Before the ball could clear the plate entirely it clearly bounced off the white area of the plate towards the very back and into the catchers glove. The umpire ruled it a strike telling me that the pitch was in the batters strike zone the entire time it passed by my batter. (Additional Info: when the pitch passed my batters back leg it was dropping ans was clearly below the knee when it crossed the front of the plate). My argument was that the position of the batter was irrelevant since the strike zone is determined by the balls passage over the plate and not where the batter is located. Since the pitch did not clear home plate entirely it is a ball. Who was right?

 

[shockcoach]

ASA's definition of the strike zone.

STRIKE ZONE: That space over any part of home plate, when a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate, between the batter’s,
A. (Fast Pitch) Arm pits and the top of the knees.

NSA's definition of the strike zone.

Sec. 51 STRIKE ZONE: The strike zone is that space over any part of home plate that is between the batter's armpit and the top of the batter's knees when the natural batting stance is assumed. Any part of the ball passing through this strike zone is considered a strike. The umpire is instructed to determine the batter's strike zone according to the batter's usual stance when swinging at a pitch.

NCAA's definition of the strike zone.

Strike Zone
SECTION 106. The area above home plate between the top of the batter’s forward armpit and the top of her knees when she assumes her natural batting stance. When the top of the ball is on or within the horizontal plane and either side of the ball is on or within the vertical plane of the strike zone, a strike is called unless the ball touches the ground before reaching home plate.

ISF's definition of the strike zone.

Sec. 90. STRIKE ZONE.
a. (FP ONLY) The strike zone is that space over any part of home plate between the batter's armpits and the top of his knees when the batter assumes his natural batting stance.

The other sanctions are similar wording.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

If your batter was in the very front of the 4' x 7' batter's box, the location of the plate becomes immaterial IMHO. If your batter was in the very rear of the batter's box, and this is strictly based on your description of the pitch, it probably would have been called a ball. But you can't have it both ways. Which rule (and associated FASTPITCH rulebook) do you believe states that a pitch that hits the plate AFTER IT PASSES THE BATTER IN THE STRIKE ZONE cannot be called a strike?

 

[SoCalASABlue]

Sorry - the measurement should be 3' x 7', not 4' x 7'...

 

[fpdad5]

I am specifically referring to Rule 7, Section 5 from the 2009 ASA Official Rules of Softball on page 78. Our league plays by these ASA rules.

A ball is called by the umpire: A) (Fast Pitch) For each legally pitched ball that does not enter the strike zone, touches the ground before reaching home plate, or touches home plate, and the batter does not swing.

I don't have the 2010 rule book yet but am pretty sure this rule hasn't change. My argument is touching the plate automatically makes it a ball regardless of where the batter was in the box. I am convinced I was right and it should have been a ball.

 

[ctfastpitch]

Seems to me that the "batter's strike zone" only refers to the vertical height that the ball must be within (armpit to the knee) when it crosses any part of the plate. Where the batter is located in the batters box really has no bearing on whether it's a ball or strike. It is strictly driven by the vertical position of the ball when it crosses the plate. If, for example, a drop ball crosses the front of the plate above the level of the batter's knees, and hits the back of the plate, then it would be a strike (and a heck of a drop ball) regardless of where the batter was standing. By the same token, if the batter is far up in the box, a drop ball could pass above her front knee, but be below that level when it reaches the plate. In that case, it should be a ball. It is just the same way as if a curve ball catches the corner of the plate, it makes no difference where the batter is standing.

If the batter is standing at either the extreme front or back of the batter's box, it is very possible that a pitch could be out of the zone when it passes the batter, but in the zone when it crosses the plate. In that case it would be a strike.

Bottom line is that the batter's size (in a normal stance) should be used to determine the vertical size of the strike zone, but she cannot change the location of the zone by moving up or back in the box.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

With all due respect, YOU don't get to make the determination as to whether the ball entered the strike zone. Since the umpire determined that the legally pitched ball entered the strike zone, the rest of the conditions of the rule you cited are moot and not subject to protest - unless you feel like getting run to the parking lot out of sight and sound.

Under your interpretation, every turnover drop that enters the strike zone above the batter's knees, takes the familiar 6-8 inch descent straight down but is not properly caught has to be called a ball - which is patently ridiculous...

 

[mkral]

Did you show him that in the rule book? We have one with us at all times for times just like that.

I am sure we have all had calls that have not gone our way or that were incorrect. The real fact of the matter is that we cannot change them and we need to let our player know that they did or did not do the right thing in that situation. I have always told my batters that with 2 on them that the strike zone just got bigger and they need to protect the plate more then ever. If the ball came into the zone at waist level she should have been swinging anyway (IMHO) and not let the ump make the decision for you or her. They are human and will make mistakes. It sucks but it happens. Some of the ASA ump's we see through the season are kids just out of training and scared of confrontation and unsure of all the rules anyway.

We fight the rounding the base rule every year. If the runner rounds a base, with the pitcher having control of the ball in the circle, and that runner does not go directly back to that base she MUST advance to the next base. She cannot stand out there bouncing around faking as they all do. We fight with ump's every year on this. They never get it. But we have to pick our battles.

 

[fpdad5]

With all due respect, YOU don't get to make the determination as to whether the ball entered the strike zone. Since the umpire determined that the legally pitched ball entered the strike zone, the rest of the conditions of the rule you cited are moot and not subject to protest - unless you feel like getting run to the parking lot out of sight and sound.

Under your interpretation, every turnover drop that enters the strike zone above the batter's knees, takes the familiar 6-8 inch descent straight down but is not properly caught has to be called a ball - which is patently ridiculous...

A couple of points. First, I know that the strike zone is subjective and you arguing balls and strikes is not worth the effort. In my 15 years of coaching softball I have never seen a coach win that argument. What can be argued is mis-interpretation or application of the rules. In my second post was not arguing that every pitch that hits home plate is automatically a ball. I understand that it can hit home plate if it FIRST enters the strike zone. What I was arguing was that the umpire was judging the strike zone based upon where my player was in the batters box and did not consider when the ball crossed ANY part of home plate. That is the definition of the ASA strike zone. When it crossed the front of the plate it was clearly out of the strike zone. Looking over my original post I realize that I left that out. Based upon the definition of the strike zone and Rule 7.5.A I am convinced I was correct.

 

[mkral]

My apologies on my post.....if it was not in the zone then heck no I would not have expected my batter to swing away. I still would have had her protecting the best she could. But again if it was out of the zone bad then let it go..
You are reading the rule correct as I see it as well. But again it is one of those deals that you won't win often. Most of the ump's we see are pretty head strong and quite frankly they need to be for other reasons and calls that they must make throughout the day and weekend.
Best Regards
Mike