Critique / Help Series of Swings

[Steve Huff]

steve:

Then steve:

So your going to be one that changes your statements...strawman.
Knightsb

Steve, I really am a nice guy....just wanted to get the point that this is a thread to help a dad, not talk about you. If you have GOOD advice for the girl...have at it. If you want to stroke your ego or debate that there should be a difference between a fast pitch swing and a high level baseball swing, then start a new thread. I played several years of men's fast pitch and still play baseball, I will join you there. If you want to just talk about yourself, then start a thread on that.

Well the the photo in #152 shows that you are wrong about that. The contact point is below the ball. and in these gifs offered, including on post #146 you posted more, I no upper-cut per se through the zone. The girl in the red appears to be hitting the ball to right-center when observing her core position, shoulders, and back foot. That orientation will cause her bat to rise back to the front shoulder sooner since her extension is complete toward right-center field. so it could give that illusion after contact that she is upper-cutting, but I don't see the bat path showing a dip. None in #146 either! I think they are all very good swings. I would like to believe you are a nice guy, but you have always called me names; "stawman"? You really hurt my feelings with that one more than the others.

One more point. You question my credentials and ask me to post evidence, then you ask me not to talk about myself. So lets not talk about me on this thread and I will link photos and video in a better place. I am going to erase the Euro post I made if you don't mind. But my Nancy Evans post was relevant, because someone said you should hold your bat perfectly vertical. I didn't know Nancy personally. I did know her mom. I was there recruiting. Vertical bat in fastpitch = big mistake, and she exploited it.

 

[knightsb]

I was curious what happened up top. You can see the contact point of the bat below the ball and I was just curious, because it came back up through the zone. That happens a lot when hitters drop their hands or tuck their back elbow, leading the hands. So I was wondering if that caused it.

Hi Steve, on that particular recording, I do not have the upper part. I was focusing on her stride. We were trying to shorten her stride, stop the reach, and not land on a straight leg.

I think I have it figured out! I see it in the clip below and redhotcoaches clip of your daughter's swing. That tee is way out front for an outside pitch position. That is causing her to lean a lot to get the fat part of the bat on the ball. That probably caused the miss hit and to cut under the ball. She would not have to lean that much on an inside pitch, hit out in front. That tee position doesn't help her.

Yes, the tee position is my fault. I had been setting the tee too far in front... from now on deeper tee positions...

 

[redhotcoach]

Well the the photo in #152 shows that you are wrong about that. The contact point is below the ball. and in these gifs offered, including on post #146 you posted more, I no upper-cut per se through the zone. The girl in the red appears to be hitting the ball to right-center when observing her core position, shoulders, and back foot. That orientation will cause her bat to rise back to the front shoulder sooner since her extension is complete toward right-center field. so it could give that illusion after contact that she is upper-cutting, but I don't see the bat path showing a dip. None in #146 either! I think they are all very good swings. I would like to believe you are a nice guy, but you have always called me names; "stawman"? You really hurt my feelings with that one more than the others.

One more point. You question my credentials and ask me to post evidence, then you ask me not to talk about myself. So lets not talk about me on this thread and I will link photos and video in a better place. I am going to erase the Euro post I made if you don't mind. But my Nancy Evans post was relevant, because someone said you should hold your bat perfectly vertical. I didn't know Nancy personally. I did know her mom. I was there recruiting. Vertical bat in fastpitch = big mistake, and she exploited it.

I didn't call you a name. You arguement is a "strawman". When you misrepresent a position in a debate. Such as "the bat should never go below the plane of the ball in fastpitch, which other swing does this correlate to?" I show several swings that the bat goes below the plane and on a similiar path as hers and you stance changes you say: "goes to show how much you know about hitting. THE CONTACT POINT never goes below the plane of the ball". So I show that Knights dd path is nearly the same as the gifs....and your stance changes a bit again "I see no uppercut through the zone".
That is a strawman arguement....where you change your statement or your opponents statement and act like it was the original statement. I would never call you a name.
Your credentials, I question why you have to continually talk about them. If you have a stance in something like vertical bat, state your case why.
Now I have entered a post without any information to help the OP, for that I am sorry to the OP.

 

[MountieSB]

Abbreviated. Connection is the whole time the bat maintains that orientation to the back shoulder. Connection ends at the hip. Once the elbow gets to the hip, the extension and wrist snap simultaneously occur. In other words, bat "lag" ends. In those photos, the connection is broken or ends because of the extension. Until then, there is no "launch" because the relationship of the bat to the hands, the arm(s) box or power box as some call it, and the back shoulder is consistent and does not modify. The bat stays connected. To have "launch" you would have to do what Jeter did in his gif, which is throw the bat head back away from his shoulder, which was done with a wrist movement, and then the hands pushed forward into the hitting zone, which MTS said should not happen. See it for yourself. Jeter's swing is more similar to Vlad Guerrero than most hitters. It worked for them, but that is not what anyone would consider teaching.

I will agree that there is an optimal/most efficient/most powerful position for a hitter to release the barrel into contact for a perfectly placed pitch and perfectly timed and anticipated and executed swing path by a batter. And if it's when the elbow is at the hip and when it lines up with the pants seam, I don't dispute it (Candrea believes it, and he's done pretty well for himself!). Golfers are always searching for the perfect mechanic to hit a stationary ball. For me, the difference between what a golfer does, and what a hitter does is hit a ball that is intentionally being thrown to deceive the hitter. You don't mention golf, but I think it's a good analogy for having a discussion about the difficulty in attaining a perfect connection and extension on every swing for a moving ball.

The posting of the photos in #5 was to help the OP get a visual of what my understanding of what efficient/powerful hitters do at contact in relation to his DD's bent-over posture at contact. In the first photo, the hitter was already in the release phase toward contact on a high inside pitch - I know it was because it was a game-winning BOMB(!) against a local rival. The second photo was again intended to show the "look" that his daughter has to start feeling in order to be stronger at contact.

Like Lombardi (is something else going on in the sports world this weekend?), my hitters and I are always chasing perfection, knowing that we'll be fortunate to get to excellence. Thanks for the input on the photos of my hitters - we'll keep chasing!

 

[rdbass]

I think theres alot to learn on the SNF drills. I thank everyone that has helped to further my education in this matter. I hope others will experiment with the SNF drills. I also would like to thank MTS for sharing his student with us. It helps alot to see a younger girl doing the drill and reading instructions on how one might improve upon it. Good stuff here and still not to technical.

 

[RayR]

Knight,

I made/edited this clip of Whitney Larsen from Alabama for you and your daughter.

It is a subtle thing, but watch her rear shoulder - as she starts to launch the barrel her rear shoulder retracts as it drops (lateral tilt) - this allows a deeper barrel turn. Many times hitters are told to swing with level shoulders, but to get a deep barrel turn you need to allow your rear shoulder to drop. This allows her hands to work down to BUT up through the ball....

 

[RayR]

A slightly different view

 

[RayR]

sorry - I wwantted to compare when her rear shoulder dropped below the front one...and how the shoulders have already rotated compared to Larsen.

 

[RayR]

Some comparison - one swing from the back and the other from the front.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Here are four swings from last weeks hitting practice. When she hits it squarely it is usually a good hit, but she has been mishitting the ball a lot lately. What is your advice, from stance to swing, on things to work on? Thank you.

[video=youtube_share;sq3x5Gxg1Os]http://youtu.be/sq3x5Gxg1Os[/video]

What is the logic of starting her hands where she does?

I see lots of girls do that, and what often happens is that the hands end up behind the back elbow due to a crack the whip effect.

I prefer the hands be set up a bit more back so that it's easier to keep some bend in the front arm.