Just wondering what your thoughts are on a backswing v/s no backswing.Since switching my daughter over to I/r 8 months ago she has come along real good with the new style but something is still not quite right with her drive.I have looked at lots of clips and read threads on the drive and I am now thinking she needs a backswing.Her H/E pitching coach never liked her to do a backswing so I did not try to change it.Will a backswing help any with her timing and drive or should I leave her alone and let her do what she has been doing for two years?
Backswing or no backswing
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Great question and I'll bet you will get the full gamut of responses.
Most pitchers probably use a backswing because that is what they have seen other pitchers use it and assume that this must be the best method. I can say that IMO a backswing typically makes the pitcher feel rhythmic and smooth....both good things. The opposite of a backswing is what most men do....don't take the ball out of the glove until both ball and glove have reached the 3 o'clock upswing position. Positives with this men's out-of-glove (OOG) delivery is that the various grips are covered from the hitters view and IMO it seems to improve timing and improves the connection of the upper and lower torso, tends to lend itself to a better forward drive position with less twisting.......obviously good things. In-between these two methods are a lot of variations.
If I were the king, my preference would be the men's OOG delivery. Having said that, I know that the pitcher (especially girls) need to feel rhythmic so if a young lady is doing fine with a backswing I wouldn't suggest changing it. You might tinker with various degrees of backswing but don't get so severe that she puts undo stress on the shoulder joint in her backswing (swinging back way to high). I think Java Source has posted some model pics on backswing....anyone able to find and repost those?
When doing speed measures with a pitcher who barely gets any backswing and seems to be under performing.....I'll suggest getting a little longer backswing plus increased tempo of the arm speed both backswing and forward/up swing. In most cases there is an instant 1-2 mph improvement. It might be because their arm circle (and total drive) in general was lethargic or it may be because it improves their timing and balance.....could be both.
For what it is worth....it is not tremendously difficult to convert a backswinger over to a men's OOG style and may be the salvation for some pitchers. I personally have had two pitchers who I converted in college that would probably have been a seldom used #3 in the rotation but after conversion immediately jumped to #1......understand that these ladies had some real issues that needed correcting and the men's OOG style was the difference maker.When I tell you the results of their first game after conversion it would sound like a "dad" story......both threw no-hitters...one of them threw two no hitters in a row after conversion.......told you it would sound like a dad, but this is a true story. Oh, BTW the conversion started like on a Tuesday and their first game was on the next Saturday.....wow, what a dad story.
Most pitchers probably use a backswing because that is what they have seen other pitchers use it and assume that this must be the best method. I can say that IMO a backswing typically makes the pitcher feel rhythmic and smooth....both good things. The opposite of a backswing is what most men do....don't take the ball out of the glove until both ball and glove have reached the 3 o'clock upswing position. Positives with this men's out-of-glove (OOG) delivery is that the various grips are covered from the hitters view and IMO it seems to improve timing and improves the connection of the upper and lower torso, tends to lend itself to a better forward drive position with less twisting.......obviously good things. In-between these two methods are a lot of variations.
If I were the king, my preference would be the men's OOG delivery. Having said that, I know that the pitcher (especially girls) need to feel rhythmic so if a young lady is doing fine with a backswing I wouldn't suggest changing it. You might tinker with various degrees of backswing but don't get so severe that she puts undo stress on the shoulder joint in her backswing (swinging back way to high). I think Java Source has posted some model pics on backswing....anyone able to find and repost those?
When doing speed measures with a pitcher who barely gets any backswing and seems to be under performing.....I'll suggest getting a little longer backswing plus increased tempo of the arm speed both backswing and forward/up swing. In most cases there is an instant 1-2 mph improvement. It might be because their arm circle (and total drive) in general was lethargic or it may be because it improves their timing and balance.....could be both.
For what it is worth....it is not tremendously difficult to convert a backswinger over to a men's OOG style and may be the salvation for some pitchers. I personally have had two pitchers who I converted in college that would probably have been a seldom used #3 in the rotation but after conversion immediately jumped to #1......understand that these ladies had some real issues that needed correcting and the men's OOG style was the difference maker.When I tell you the results of their first game after conversion it would sound like a "dad" story......both threw no-hitters...one of them threw two no hitters in a row after conversion.......told you it would sound like a dad, but this is a true story. Oh, BTW the conversion started like on a Tuesday and their first game was on the next Saturday.....wow, what a dad story.
Thanks Rick,That's kinda what I was wanting to hear.She has made the I/R transition really fast And I think we will keep working on drive mechanics to build a little more speed.I just wanted to make sure there were no terrible negatives to no back swing.This daughter is 14 and I am trying to teach her and her 10 year old sister using info from this board and guys like you contribute.I started working with my 10 year old 5 months ago and she actually pitched some in her first travel tourney yesterday using the I/R method.
I watched a young lady over the weekend using a similar presentation to Hillhouse and she's 11U. No radar but I'm guessing she was between 53-56mph. Her drive off the rubber was impressive as she would land outside the circle. First time I've ever seen anything like it.
Wow... how tall was she? That is impressive!
Just a guess as to height 5-3/5-4. She's 11. Was wondering how this team was crushing other teams and giving up no runs. The best I can describe is rocking a baby. Her arms were bent with ball in the glove. She'd swing her arms in a rocking motion bending at the waist. As she came forward the ball stayed in the glove until 3 o'clock. Her drive stayed low. Back foot down throughout. Her front foot was 1-2 ft out of the circle when she landed. A few of our parents videod her to show others.
That is cool. Most pitchers when you first show them the men's OOG presentation will instantly worry that it will kill their speed. I can tell you that after they get comfortable their speeds are the same or even faster......and the control improves dramatically in all.
I will try to find her parents at the next tournament we see her in and see if they mind.
My DD fouled off her but watched a 3rd strike go by
When my DD first stared she would swing both arms back. Then she switched to just one are back swing. I think like Coach Pauly stated, it makes them feel rhythmic and smooth. I have sat on the buck and caught my DD that has a backswing and other pitches with no backswing with a delivery like Hillhouse teaches.
From the bucket it appears that the ball is on you (the batter) faster from the "no backswing" approach because it is hidden longer. In the end, I think the pitcher has to do what makes her feel comfortable as long as she is demonstrating proper mechanics.
From the bucket it appears that the ball is on you (the batter) faster from the "no backswing" approach because it is hidden longer. In the end, I think the pitcher has to do what makes her feel comfortable as long as she is demonstrating proper mechanics.
