97bucketdad DD *VIDEO*

This video was getting lost in a different thread. This is a new thread. DD is playing on a 14U team.


Pitching111711.MOV - YouTube



Here is a short video from last night. I asked PC if I could video her to see if she was in fact pitching too far ahead of her hip when following through. The first two pitches show the follow through, and the third is the stop he is showing her.

I am not able to stop, edit, or do anything with the video yet. It may be of too poor a quality to get a clear freeze. Sluggers can you help break it down?

Yes, she appears timid and tight in the video, but she is on concrete and really just working on her arm circle and holding that glove in place.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Your DD is not striding anywhere close to the 6' in not one of the three pitchs in the video. I have not be able to determine what pitch she is working on in the video. Is it a drop? After reading your original post, I think I understand why she gets so frustrated. She is totally confused with all the different advice she is getting from all the PCs she has tried. Its a total guess on my part, but the PC that asked her to stop her hand at release maybe trying to minimize all the unnecessary movement in her motion. I may be wrong, but has the PC suggested this was temporary in an effort to correct something else in her motion. Does she ever complain about her shoulder hurting after she pitchs?

First, I like your DD's build. She has a nice athletic frame. I'm sure she is extremely confused.

Her problem doesn't have anything to do with her release point. Her shoulder motion is entirely screwed up. This is pretty basic stuff.

Anyway:

Throwing for speed underhand is like throwing for speed overhand, except upside down. Have her try an overhand outfield throw. Her right shoulder goes down at the beginning when she takes the ball back, and then goes up and over at release. So, when pitching, the shoulder goes *UP* at 12 and then *DOWN AND UNDER* at release.

Attached is your DD's shoulder motion and Jenny Finch's shoulder motion. Look at how much lower Jenny's shoulder is at release compared to her shoulder at 3. Look at your DD. Your DD is actually raising her shoulder at release, which is completely wrong.

Your DD is not having trouble with her snap. She is having trouble with the movement of her shoulder. You get her to fix her shoulder movement, and she'll be able to fix her vertical location problem in minutes.

The way to fix this:

(1) Show her the picture of Jenny Finch and her.
(2) Have her demonstrate an outfielder throw and ask her to pay close attention to the motion of her shoulder.
(3) Stand behind her, have her get open, take the ball to 3, and then you put your hand on her shoulder and push her shoulder down. This will demonstrate the basic movement for her.

Snap Stop work..........Improves Accuracy and timing.........I have no problem with this at 75% effort........



Full Motion...........



Food for thought.........



Think........."Early Sequence Overlap" arm swing vs. legs.........vs. No Overlap (Push)........

Thanks to everybody for the advice. After a rough weekend pitching, we were back after it yesterday with a different approach. DD will not do any full pitching until this weekend.

Sluggers, I showed DD the pictures you posted, and it looks very familiar. It was pointed out to us by Amy a year or so ago, but at that time she was also having trouble getting her arm long at release. I guess once the arm seemed to be better we moved on. PC has also worked on trying to relax that shoulder.

When doing arm circles, 3 o’clock and show it and throw it drills, the shoulder stayed pretty level, but she could feel a big difference when I pushed down on it. The last drill she did last night was arm circles using the bucket under her stride foot. That probably demonstrated the proper posture the best, and the shoulder was much lower. Is there a chance the shoulder is coming up as a result of the hand rotation not being right and that is why it was not as bad doing these drills, or is it a result of being tight, and will come back when throwing full speed regardless?

BoardMember, in the clip of my DD doing the stop drill, she was probably at about 75% effort, but PC would like this to be her fastball snap. We are going to abandon that for now and try to get the IR timing correct and feeling natural for her. Now that I am looking for it, I am shocked how many kids I see with slow, smooth arm circles at the top, fast smooth arms at the bottom. They are the ones consistently throwing the ball hard, regardless of their lower body mechanics. Can you dumb down “Early Sequence Overlap” for me. Are you referring to her lack of load in the clip?

Screwball, DD has spent a lot of time on the rise. PC#1 taught it how you are describing. She called it resisting at the end, staying open and falling back on the back foot. She also taught the spin drills where you flip the ball backwards, and then turn around and flip it with a push to the catcher. PC#3 teaches the same grip, but doesn’t want the body to change. DD can throw the ball with the correct spin just about every time, but when she misses it looks like a floating change, and is scary.

Is there a chance the shoulder is coming up as a result of the hand rotation not being right and that is why it was not as bad doing these drills, or is it a result of being tight, and will come back when throwing full speed regardless?

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A pitcher focuses on some aspect of her pitching motion when doing the drill. When the pitcher "pitches", she focuses holistically on her body motion. Usually, the pitcher will do the drills well, and then she starts pitching, she will slowly "lose it".

So, what you need to do is:

(1) Do the drill to fix whatever problem she has.
(2) Have her pitch.
(3) As long as her motion does not exhibit the problem she is attempting fix, she continues pitching.
(4) When her motion breaks down and the problem resurfaces, you go back to step 1.

The number of pitches between drills goes up as she fixes her motion. At some point, she won't even think about it anymore. This takes a lot of patience and perseverance. But, it will work. (This process is what she will do for the rest of her pitching career. Some part of the pitching motion is always breaking down.)

IMHO, once she starts getting the shoulder drop, you'll see a lot of the other problems disappear. She'll also pick up some speed.

If a pitcher drops her shoulder and keeps her arm on the same vertical plane through release, then the ball will go straight toward the catcher. The only thing she then has to worry about is the up-down location of the ball.

But, since your DD was spinning at release, she was making it much more difficult to hit the target. IMHO, that is why her speed is lower than you would expect from a kid with athletic build. She was slowing down so she could get the ball close to the target.

I am shocked how many kids I see with slow, smooth arm circles at the top, fast smooth arms at the bottom

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Do you play golf? The key to hitting a ball farther is to be slow on the back swing so that your body and arms are in perfect position for the swing.

It is the same thing in pitching...the first 1/3 of the motion is simply to get the body and arms in correct position for throwing the ball. Your pitching instructor's comments about slowing the arm down in the last 1/3 of the motion were crazy.

97bucketdad said:

BoardMember, in the clip of my DD doing the stop drill, she was probably at about 75% effort, but PC would like this to be her fastball snap. We are going to abandon that for now and try to get the IR timing correct and feeling natural for her. Now that I am looking for it, I am shocked how many kids I see with slow, smooth arm circles at the top, fast smooth arms at the bottom. They are the ones consistently throwing the ball hard, regardless of their lower body mechanics. Can you dumb down “Early Sequence Overlap” for me. Are you referring to her lack of load in the clip?

Click to expand...

Early Overlap..........The body moving forward as the arm moves back..........

On problem with this type of sequence is lack of overlap.........This is one big advantage the rocker motion gives pitchers.......Early OVERLAP of upper/lower body.....

Watch how much forward drive Seldon has before her arm shoots forward.............Her legs are 100% before the ball begins moving up the circle......



Your DD's leg drive isn't at 100% until the ball is more then half way up the circle.......NO Overlap driving the arm circle.........Only PUSH......MUSCLE....



Notice the overlap Finch gets with her rocker motion.......Legs at 100% before the ball heads up the circle because of the rocker........



Early OVERLAP is CRITICAL to timing, arm speed and velocity.......See if you can see Abbott's OVERLAP..........

BM...I don't know if this is part of the overlap your talking about...but when we were learning to leap...we used the the cue point...that at the highest point the knee reaches... before the full stretch of the front leg...the ball is beside or just above the stride knee on the upswing.

Thats what most of the good pitchers around our area did...that i had video'd...so we used that. Both Finch and Abbott are at that cue point of the sequence too.

Is this the same thing as "overlapping" or legs at 100%?

Very good Bobby..........Works for me.........And If you run these just a frame or 2 further.......You'll find my "reach rule"........Whereby the "max reach" of the lead leg and pitching arm converge just about half way up the circle or very slightly past..........

TY...
Ball at 9 o'clock...front stride leg is extended (Max reach).