Props to Bill Hillhouse

I just want to take a minute to "potentially" give props to Bill and his expertise. We played in a tournament this past weekend and the pitcher we went up against made us look like we had never picked up a bat in our lifetime. I have to say that we are a really good team and we hit the ball extremely well. I am not saying we are PGF caliber yet but we have played and beat some teams that placed high in the SoCal PGF tournaments this past summer.

My DD has been fortunate enough to take a lesson from Bill a few years back. Bill got us started on the "right" way to pitch and was the first person to make sense to us. Truth is, the whole hide the ball on the back swing, like rocking a baby, wasn't for us (maybe a mistake looking back). It was uncomfortable for my DD and truthfully I felt it took away a touch of velocity. Just my opinion and I am probably wrong.

Anyway, the pitcher, who I cannot confirm is a Hillhouse student or not pitches just like Bill teaches. I am 99.9 percent positive she takes from Bill but I don't know for sure. I just know how Bill teaches and I have never seen anyone else cradle the ball like she did that wasn't a student of Bill's.

BUT what I have never seen is a girl that made a team look so silly. This girl had B+ velocity and maybe even A- for 16U. I wish I could tell how fast she threw but I don't know. She definitely was on the higher end but not the fastest we have seen this fall. BUT, our girls could never pick up the ball once it was released. It was absolutely amazing IMO. They could not seem to find it and BOOM it was gone. I have to hand it to Bill, even if this wasn't his student, the whole keeping the ball in the glove until the end truly pays off. I hadn't seen it in person and in an upper level pitcher with my naked eye and it really was something that I had never seen before.

Just to finish up the long story.....My DD told me that all the players were coming in the dugout saying she really doesn't throw that fast to the other batters. Yet, the next batter and then the next didn't just strike out but looked just plain silly doing it. I love our team but this girl and her mechanics were amazing to see.

I am a believer and wish I could share my experience in video for everyone to see.

STRIKE3 said:

Truth is, the whole hide the ball on the back swing, like rocking a baby, wasn't for us (maybe a mistake looking back). It was uncomfortable for my DD and truthfully I felt it took away a touch of velocity. Just my opinion and I am probably wrong.

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Not to mention how it helps with hitting too :{)) JMHO

What I think the issue is... Those are just the que's given to a 9yr. old. Books could have been writin on it. At least one long a** thread.

I would simply say , "Try it yourself"... right now.

Get the proper space between feet... the whole 6" Feet spread shoulder width
Act like you got ball in glove
Pull both hands together back past your hip
You will have to crouch correctly, and feel your back foot heel coming up
That is the right place for YOU (height-weight) to Push-Push

Any other way leads to syncing issues. Streach, doublepump, singlepump, or even taking the ball clear down to the ground... You'll never find that point so easily... nor have the same push point everytime, anyother way, so fast....sooo I'm thinking it would be an easy rebuild. Don't know, cause DD has always done it.

As someone who is a complete amateur this is one of the few questions I have with Bill, but he could tell you more about pitching in 5 minutes than I could in a lifetime, if this site has taught us one thing it is watch, analyze and understand what the best in the world do and don't be afraid to copy it. The vast majority of the best female pitchers in the world use a back swing a vast majority of the men do not. I am simply making an observation I have an opinion on why but like I said getting into who is right/wrong contest with Bill would probably leave me with egg on my face...I like eggs but to eat not to wear. Feel free to do a little research on your own and discuss with amongst yourselves but I will just leave it there for now.

djcarter1966 said:

As someone who is a complete amateur this is one of the few questions I have with Bill, but he could tell you more about pitching in 5 minutes than I could in a lifetime, if this site has taught us one thing it is watch, analyze and understand what the best in the world do and don't be afraid to copy it. The vast majority of the best female pitchers in the world use a back swing a vast majority of the men do not. I am simply making an observation I have an opinion on why but like I said getting into who is right/wrong contest with Bill would probably leave me with egg on my face...I like eggs but to eat not to wear. Feel free to do a little research on your own and discuss with amongst yourselves but I will just leave it there for now.

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No doubt the arm backswing is prevalent in the women's game now.......however, with the advanced scouting going on now in the college game I think we will see a migration toward more girls not backswings but rather separating ball/glove during the upswing near 3 o'clock. It definitely hides the grip to eliminate the easy picks some pitchers display now. I've wrestled with which premotion is best a million times and have students doing all three. It is almost a stylist thing....which ever one they feel most comfortable with is the right one for them. Just for the record, I don't find any fall off in performance in those who I've converted to the more traditional men's pre-motion.

As one of our resident experts do you think upper body strength and/or the pitching rules are factors in why men's and women's motions differ in this area.

This was a neat story! My DD has just recently started taking lessons from Bill and is converting to using the ball in glove premotion. I will admit that I have had my doubts but she seems to be doing quite well with it. It does seem to be helping with her glove swim.


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djcarter1966 said:

As someone who is a complete amateur this is one of the few questions I have with Bill, but he could tell you more about pitching in 5 minutes than I could in a lifetime, if this site has taught us one thing it is watch, analyze and understand what the best in the world do and don't be afraid to copy it. The vast majority of the best female pitchers in the world use a back swing a vast majority of the men do not. I am simply making an observation I have an opinion on why but like I said getting into who is right/wrong contest with Bill would probably leave me with egg on my face...I like eggs but to eat not to wear. Feel free to do a little research on your own and discuss with amongst yourselves but I will just leave it there for now.

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Might not of seen my post #2... Guessing you didn't try it for yourself. The best in the World throw 85+mph

So hear is the next absolute... (for my DD.... JMHO) "There is no gender difference" I knew it when she was 5-8... I'm honestly thinking about having her play BB in School....

Perfect Circle said:

Might not of seen my post #2... Guessing you didn't try it for yourself. The best in the World throw 85+mph

So hear is the next absolute... (for my DD.... JMHO) "There is no gender difference" I knew it when she was 5-8... I'm honestly thinking about having her play BB in School....

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This is really why I did not want to go down this road. Everyone simply throws out stuff but when you simply look at what actually happens they say that does not matter. Your DD can't use the same mechanics as the best in the world because they are not legal for any national rule set she will play in. Unless of course the point your DD separates her hands looks like the still below taken from one of those best in the world Does that mean she can't throw 85+ I don't know but it would not be worth it do find out from a mechanically confusing standpoint. Can a man throw 85+ using women's rules...maybe. Can a woman throw 85+ using men's rules again maybe but once they get to the international level they can use the same mechanics but choose not to again why rebuild what you have spent over 15 years perfecting to get an extra couple mph.

Again if this sight has taught me anything it is believe your eyes. Again you guys all know way more than me I am only passing along what I am observing...now I could be drawing the wrong conclusions but the observations themselves are not in dispute...at least I don't think so?

The best woman in the world use a back swing, can't jump out five feet and replant and throw in the low 70s

The best men in the world keep the ball in their glove and jump out five feet replant and throw in the low 80s

This is my own observation with my daughter.
When dd first learned to pitch, it was taught in two stages: Turn sideways to get open…then close. It created a problem with her arm circle: it was slow to start, then she would try to muscle it in the end. We added an arm swing to create some speed that she lacked at the beginning of her circle. As her mechanics improved and she learned the correct way to pitch with Rick Pauly, we are no longer seeing the pause, then hurry up.
I would say if the mechanics are solid, going without an arm swing gives a slight advantage…and to compete at a high level of pitching, the pitcher can use any advantage they can get. I watched another pitcher who just came out of the glove. Her arm circle was slow…I am thinking it is connected to the same problem my daughter had with opening too soon…then the heavy drag slows her down. I think with the arm swing, it can help compensate when there is a flaw in the mechanics. It doesn't fix the problem but it does allow girls who don't have great mechanics to still pitch with some speed….just my own views and opinions.

djcarter1966 said:

This is really why I did not want to go down this road. Everyone simply throws out stuff but when you simply look at what actually happens they say that does not matter. Your DD can't use the same mechanics as the best in the world because they are not legal for any national rule set she will play in. Unless of course the point your DD separates her hands looks like the still below taken from one of those best in the world Does that mean she can't throw 85+ I don't know but it would not be worth it do find out from a mechanically confusing standpoint. Can a man throw 85+ using women's rules...maybe. Can a woman throw 85+ using men's rules again maybe but once they get to the international level they can use the same mechanics but choose not to again why rebuild what you have spent over 15 years perfecting to get an extra couple mph.

Again if this sight has taught me anything it is believe your eyes. Again you guys all know way more than me I am only passing along what I am observing...now I could be drawing the wrong conclusions but the observations themselves are not in dispute...at least I don't think so?

The best woman in the world use a back swing, can't jump out five feet and replant and throw in the low 70s

The best men in the world keep the ball in their glove and jump out five feet replant and throw in the low 80s

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Relative to upper body strength and the male/female differences.......I have never seen that to be an issue. What I do see is far less drive mechanics issues with the "out of glove" premotion vs an arm backswing.

I really hate to admit how old I really am, but the picture of the man you have posted is not what it used to be like "back in the day". Men were actually required to throw with the same drive mechanics that the girls are required to do today. Back in the day there were numerous pitchers in the 85 mph range. The leap IMO does not really add anything to the speed.....what it does do is put the pitcher closer to the hitter with the release of the ball....thus reducing the distance/reaction time the hitter has....in baseball they would call it "effective velocity".
I wouldn't associate the "out of glove" premotion the "leaping lizards" of todays men's fastpitch with anything related to their crowhop. Men have been using the "out of glove" premotion for ever.......except of course when you go way, way back to the days of the slingshot pitchers.

I don't think the arm premotion is any kind of an absolute.