IR from a slingshot male pitcher long ago!

mothgirl,

Did Rose ever make that change with her drive foot? Until she fully commits to that mechanical footwork correction, her kinetic energy chain will continue to be unnatural & inefficient. Whether it's fielding, throwing, hitting or baserunning, footwork & lower body mechanics are very important in developing power, speed & control, including pitching. As a reminder, her ackward toe push is responsible for the push upward. Settle that foot naturally, rock & drive for that great back-to-go-forward motion. Like Bill mentioned, it's in her head & there's muscle memory that has to be corrected. There's no question she can physically do it. She accomplished it on her own in less than 5 minutes in Indiana. She'll have to commit to trusting the process of change.

Chris

Some really interesting perspectives going on here. Rather than subtract from any of the already good posts... I'll try to add to them...

Chris Delorit said:

...her kinetic energy chain will continue to be unnatural & inefficient.

... it's in her head & there's muscle memory that has to be corrected.

Click to expand...

Absolutely brilliant stuff here.

What I see in EVERY beginning pitcher (I just had this conversation with one of my favorite students in clinic) is that they KNOW what it is that needs to be done... but they just try too damn hard doing it. I used this analogy with her...

It's like swimming. Even though you know you need to keep your head above water... beginning swimmers are tossed in the water... and they respond by activating every muscle in the entire body... rather than the ones that they actually need to successfully swim. It's counter-intuitive... we need to bring our arms in the direction opposite the intended direction we are heading. As such... beginning students start flailing around and perform so many unnecessary movements that they sink... rather than swim. IN OTHER WORDS... they lack the coordination and EFFICIENCY in performing their movements.

I should've referenced dancing, too. Imagine a really goofy white guy trying to bust a move... and put him next to a really good dancer. If you were to ask them both to perform the same dance... I guarantee you you would see the divergence. Even though both were performing the same steps... one of them is incredibly coordinated and efficient in their movements... and the other one looks like this:



Point being... is that even though Mr. Double Dream Hands can perform the moves... it's REALLY easy to see that he does so by activating way too many muscles (poorly coordinated and inefficient use of muscle)... and if you make it to the point in the video where he goes "freestyle"... you'll really see what I'm talking about.

So...

mothgirl said:

From my own personal experience, Ive noticed if the Drive is off its really hard to get good velocity even with a good whip. If you push late, land late its gonna throw off your whip. If your going up instead of out, when your arms are ahead of your legs etc... So many things in the drive can rob you of velocity. Idk, It may be that this is thing my dd struggles with so its what stands out to me more, but I think great velocity comes down to good timing.

Click to expand...

That last line is 1000% correct.

The problem with Rose... in my humble opinion... is not that she doesn't know what to do... it's that she's doing too much... and doing so inefficiently... with bad timing. So... how do you fix that? Well... to each their own - BUT - here's a thought:

There are two ways to get better:
1) Increase your capacity to create energy OR...
2) Increase your ability to transform energy you create to do useful work.

Rose is trying to drive out with more force, lean, overlap, etc... She is stressing her system in hopes that it will adapt to the changes. MANY atheletes use this theory (SAID) to become better athletes. Rose is already a good athlete... but her timing is piss-poor (I mean that lovingly... and look forward to seeing her this summer). One reason she might be stuck in this infinite loop... is because that is the only way her body knows how. It will NOT self-correct. It's like a road map... she has gotten on one road... and her body has adapted to it... and every time she performs the movement... all those nasty parasitic movements and bad timing pieces get activated. Her brain will default to the route it knows best (especially when under stress).

THE OTHER OPTION... and what I'll spend a good amount of time with her on... is actually making a new road map. I will teach her (as Bill alluded to) new motor learning... and do so SLOWLY so that she can FEEL and sense the movement. Timing isn't corrected mid-flight... it's corrected before it. Movement dysfunction MUST be separated from performance activities... and if she slows down... she will immediately increase her ability to sense differences, creating a much more accurate and discriminating perception of the movements she needs to correct. Until she can do this... the intended movement will ALWAYS activate the parasitic movement.

Point being... these are two valid teaching methods... it's our job as PC's to make sure we understand which one the athlete requires. Inefficient and uncoordinated motor corrections require remapping... whereas as coordinated movements benefit from SAID.

Rocketech1 said:

... arm whip mechanics is the holy grail of fastpitch pitching...you perfect that and everything else is gravy.

Click to expand...

Again... adding here... not subtracting...

IMO, the real difference between slingshot and "leap and drag" is the timing involved in the two. That's it.

Far too often coaches teach "top down"... rather than "bottom up". Too much emphasis on the circle without the proper understanding of the importance of creating a sequence that is EFFICIENT. For this reason... teaching a kid to whip the ball is absolutely critical... but to turn her into an elite pitcher... she needs to deliver that motion with the correct timing. Sequencing and timing is all about how and when we interact with the ground. And in that last statement... is the absolute GLARING difference between "leap and drag" versus slingshot.

The timing and recruitment of the arm whip is so critical... and stabilizing is so much harder than teaching a kid to throw the ball underhand... as it requires more than just strength... it requires timing and sequencing.

This video should come with a warning message........."Warning, Once seen, this video can never be unseen".

This is a pretty accurate page regarding modified delivery styles. The last pitcher is a slingshot pitcher. If you ignore how he gets to the top of his backswing, freeze the video at the top and play it from there, you'll see that it is basically an I/R delivery motion with a step involved with a backswing reversal just above 9:00.

Videos of Pitching Styles - 10 Man Modified Softball

This is a "modified" Fastpitch delivery known as Slingshot. This is how I learned to pitch when I was young. We thew this way from 46ft. The rules stated that the ball could not be brought above your head or the pitch was illegal. Within a couple of years, they formed a 9:00 league and a 12:00 league (max backswing). 12:00 slingshot is basically what Hal Skinner mis-labeled as "submarine style" Fastpitch. Most of us who threw from 12:00 initially went on to throw windmill.

I'll tell you this regarding arm whip. When you are forced to throw from 46ft with a max backswing just above 9:00, or even 12:00 against a live hitter, you learn to whip the ball or you won't survive. This is where my education in the I/R delivery began.

PEPPERS said:

Not for sure who this guy in the video is, but a video of a pitcher using slingshot motion.

Hope the video works!

[video]https://youtu.be/2LzcwzlFM44[/video]

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this vid!

BoardMember said:

This video should come with a warning message........."Warning, Once seen, this video can never be unseen".

Click to expand...

I have seen this guy before

Something that stuck out to me in this article is the coaches quote at the bottom of the first column - "He is almost unhittable when his drop pitch is working" - I think young pitchers should take this to heart that even someone of his caliber periodically his go to pitch wasn't working. Thanks for sharing Bill!!

Two videos that may be of interest, a demonstration of a slingshot pitching drill and Joan Joyce talking about the slingshot, DD who is a pitcher in college uses this drill and has used the slingshot in a game as a change of pace to disrupt a batters timing.

[video]https://youtu.be/-ybZclAsGCA[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/2P4AElF7T_k[/video]

I've seen it and measured it to many times to not put some credence into it: a pitcher who is reasonably solid in her IR/Brush/Whip will throw 90% of her full motion mound speed when throwing from just the "K"/slingshot position. You will get some minor leg drive effect when throwing from "K" because you should use a step but what this 90% says is that the drive mechanics only add about 10% to speed. Is 10% significant......yes, but until you have mastered the 90% all the drive in the world will be relatively insignificant in adding speed.

I think Rocketech's post is in agreement with what I believe......Bill, you agreed with RT.......where is the disconnect.....was it in my explaination or demo????

Ive been so busy. Im sorry it took me so long to get back here. Im going to try to respond one by one. Great responses! I cant tell you how much I love this forum and the people on it. I know I haven't been around a lot lately Ive just been busy. It was my sons Bday yesterday he turned 14. We threw him a party today, I still have about 12 teenagers walking in and out right now. We played slip n slide Kickball and wiffleball so fun!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk