Connector device
Straightleg
Straightleg
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Connector device
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I like that, It's one of the better ideas that i have seen out there. On another thread on here they talk about the back elbow leading the way, this will cure that. I think they need to take a look at this.
- Oct 19, 2009
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Thanks straightleg, I know a lot of kids ?I think this device could help, but I do have a question I will ask in the next paragraph. . Where did you get the rubber bushings and how are the curved ends attached? The had path device I have an old hitting stick that I’m trying to figure out how to modify it where we can use it for the same purpose, a hitting stick with an attachment that could adjust. Maybe 1 tool for 2 uses?
YouTube - Baseball Hitting Instruction by Don Slaught - Live Hands
The question Don Slaught in this utube video talks of live and independent hands, he says the back elbow starts the swing which puts the hips into rotation and then picks up the front elbow. If ever thing is attached he advises is a gate swing and he advises that you do not want that. I’ve seen people on the form refer to him as an expert on hitting mechanics. My question is could this device promote the gate swing he talks about avoiding? If it does is that a bad thing as he suggest?
What a great ideal on sharing ideals, I’ve learned a great deal and I’ve been a member only for a short time. Thanks guys
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- Oct 12, 2009
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It's nice to see that he hasn't let all the video that he has shot get in the way of his preconceived, and incorrect, notions about the swing.
Peppers
That is an excellent question. Since I created this one I think I can respond to it. I invented this to try and get my students to understand a connected swing better. Most of them were coming to me with a swing down and lets take the hands to the ball approach. Which most were taught by some coach or dad at the rec level.
We all know that once muscle memory gets developed it can be difficult to change. So I had to find a better solution. What your seeing here is probably version 6 or 7. Which I am ok with since I know all of these gentlemen and I consider them to be knowledgeable about how to create a consistent swing. We all have the same goal and focus.
This was more a design originally to stop the hitter from taking the hands to the ball. So it is a RESTRICTION device. It was not designed to go beyond contact into extension. You can go beyond contact but the only way you will get to extension with it is to take the top hand off after contact and catch it against the chest or just let it fall to the ground.
You have identified one of the areas that this could become a problem with if it is over used. It could lead to the front elbow going up too quickly and the barrel of the bat dropping too fast if your not aware of that when using the device as a instructor. That is IMO is a drawback in using it. Over use could lead to another bad habit if you dont know what your doing with the device.
What I found out during the testing was that it became much more than a restriction device the more I used it. I was not only seeing improved connection but at the same time improved rotation and separation. If they cannot take the hands to the ball then the only other option to hit the ball hard is to rotate the hips better. That then lead to better shoulder rotation. The idea here is that at contact the arms should be in what I refer to as the "Power L" position at contact going into extension. Some call this the box. Others call this the Triangle. Once the student got comfortable with it then they started getting more aggressive with the swing and the better their movement got with it. The important aspect was they could FEEL what a good rotational connected swing was about. Take it out of their arms and watch them. They will explode into the ball.
As for Mr Slaught I am not sure what he is saying with the back elbow moving first. It would seem to me that the swing should start from the ground up with heel plant, knee flex, hip rotation. Core turn with the negative move then a good first move with the front elbow. I have had several conversations with Howard Carrier. (Hitter) about this in the past. Howard knows Don quite well so maybe he can shed some light on what Don means by rear elbow moves first.
As for the hands I am not a huge fan of the hands being real active during the swing in a young player. You will not hear me talk about top hand torque. You will hear me discuss wrist release or unhinging. I will talk about grip and I will talk about hand path to the ball. I wont teach a kid how to tip it and rip it like some of the major league boys do as I think it leads to an inconsistent swing plane. This being due to excessive movement.
I always want my students to have a consistent swing plane. Which is another aspect that the connector provides.
Dana.
That is an excellent question. Since I created this one I think I can respond to it. I invented this to try and get my students to understand a connected swing better. Most of them were coming to me with a swing down and lets take the hands to the ball approach. Which most were taught by some coach or dad at the rec level.
We all know that once muscle memory gets developed it can be difficult to change. So I had to find a better solution. What your seeing here is probably version 6 or 7. Which I am ok with since I know all of these gentlemen and I consider them to be knowledgeable about how to create a consistent swing. We all have the same goal and focus.
This was more a design originally to stop the hitter from taking the hands to the ball. So it is a RESTRICTION device. It was not designed to go beyond contact into extension. You can go beyond contact but the only way you will get to extension with it is to take the top hand off after contact and catch it against the chest or just let it fall to the ground.
You have identified one of the areas that this could become a problem with if it is over used. It could lead to the front elbow going up too quickly and the barrel of the bat dropping too fast if your not aware of that when using the device as a instructor. That is IMO is a drawback in using it. Over use could lead to another bad habit if you dont know what your doing with the device.
What I found out during the testing was that it became much more than a restriction device the more I used it. I was not only seeing improved connection but at the same time improved rotation and separation. If they cannot take the hands to the ball then the only other option to hit the ball hard is to rotate the hips better. That then lead to better shoulder rotation. The idea here is that at contact the arms should be in what I refer to as the "Power L" position at contact going into extension. Some call this the box. Others call this the Triangle. Once the student got comfortable with it then they started getting more aggressive with the swing and the better their movement got with it. The important aspect was they could FEEL what a good rotational connected swing was about. Take it out of their arms and watch them. They will explode into the ball.
As for Mr Slaught I am not sure what he is saying with the back elbow moving first. It would seem to me that the swing should start from the ground up with heel plant, knee flex, hip rotation. Core turn with the negative move then a good first move with the front elbow. I have had several conversations with Howard Carrier. (Hitter) about this in the past. Howard knows Don quite well so maybe he can shed some light on what Don means by rear elbow moves first.
As for the hands I am not a huge fan of the hands being real active during the swing in a young player. You will not hear me talk about top hand torque. You will hear me discuss wrist release or unhinging. I will talk about grip and I will talk about hand path to the ball. I wont teach a kid how to tip it and rip it like some of the major league boys do as I think it leads to an inconsistent swing plane. This being due to excessive movement.
I always want my students to have a consistent swing plane. Which is another aspect that the connector provides.
Dana.
Next time you are over we can do it. I like what Don says as the lead elbow picks up however I describe it as the lead elbow makes a good first move by going up a ramp as I do not want what BM describe as a chicken wing move of just up! So if I do not say up then possibly by saying where the elbow was the hand will be and as the lead elbow moves forward is and is traveling upwards at the same time adjusting to our instincts of where the ball will be and we are rotating to the ball as needed as we release the barrel to the ball with our wrists.
The slow motion understanding the feeling of being connected verses disconnected it what is important for the kids. With this device you can actually stop and stage the hands where they should be and view it in the mirror so as to see it, feel it and fix it!
The rubber grommets came from a plumbing supply house. The curved gray PVC pipe are right or left you pick the direction, electrical PVC pipe connections and I trimmed them down and just used the curved ends.
Chris each person that is willing to say what they think is correct or perceive is correct is what opinions are and you have to love that process of being able to share. However as we have found in a clinic environment the kid sitting next to you does not want to ask a question or answer one for fear of not knowing or being considered stupid by the others in the group. I think in my opinion some of the parents or people on these boards feel the same way to a certain degree. Don is a friend of mine and even he and I do not agree on all aspects of the swing however I respect him and his knowledge as I do you even though I have never met you. You and I know there are boards and members associated to them that we possibly can say have a radical point of view when it comes to hitting and associated philosophies and I hope that never happens here as this seems to be one of the friendlier of all boards I have visited.
Just my opinion...
Thanks Howard
Thanks Howard
- Oct 12, 2009
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I'm sorry if I'm sensitive to this, but I'm working with multiple high level baseball players (major league, AA, and D-1 college) in the off-season right now and in every case their main problem is disconnection as a result of doing what Don is demonstrating in his clip.
They push their hands too far forward, which robs them of power and adjustability.
Don may be a nice guy, but advice like that is ruining people's swings.
Dana stated:
"As for Mr Slaught I am not sure what he is saying with the back elbow moving first. It would seem to me that the swing should start from the ground up with heel plant, knee flex, hip rotation. Core turn with the negative move then a good first move with the front elbow. I have had several conversations with Howard Carrier. (Hitter) about this in the past. Howard knows Don quite well so maybe he can shed some light on what Don means by rear elbow moves first."
I would never speak for Don however my thoughts are, when a hitter makes up their mind to swing there is a fine line of hips and elbows and that is really individual verses one size fits all in my opinion. I see a flat footed hitter with little momentum try to get it going by being dominate with the upper body first verses flowing to the ball.
I see a more balanced hitter stepping on their lead edge of the front foot still making up their mind and being able to hold back by not lowering the back elbow and thus holding the hands back even though the hips were still in movement. I think Sue Engusit pointed it out very well in the adjust phase of RVP that the movement of the hip not stopping until the hitter reads slow or fast and then trying to get to heel plant is what separates the elite hitters and she shows a hitter adjusting to a slower pitch and a faster pitch and both were home runs.The shots were taken from behind and you can see the hips action being delayed on the slower pitch and the hip action being quicker on the faster pitch. Possibly this adjustment can be seen as improving your swing as you become more aware of what your instincts are and becoming more aware of your body as your swing matures. I do not think it is a simple as turning on a light switch of go or no go or on or off. Timing and how we teach where the hitter could be verses where they choose to be is a factor also and to a degree is part of their athleticism. I would like the hitter to load when the pitcher is in their K position and to be at toe touch, on the inside edge of their lead foot with a flexed knee when she releases the ball. Now having wished for that perfect gift how do we teach it or does it evolve as the hitter is learning what the pitchers are trying to do and that is deceive us and throw our timing and rhythm off.
I also know I can send a 300 pound man flying backwards with a perfectly timed two inch punch and driving off my big toe. It is a learned technique and skill just like hitting and we all do it a little different and they have averages to judge who is doing it good, better and best and then there is everyone who knows exactly what they think is perfect.
Thanks Howard
"As for Mr Slaught I am not sure what he is saying with the back elbow moving first. It would seem to me that the swing should start from the ground up with heel plant, knee flex, hip rotation. Core turn with the negative move then a good first move with the front elbow. I have had several conversations with Howard Carrier. (Hitter) about this in the past. Howard knows Don quite well so maybe he can shed some light on what Don means by rear elbow moves first."
I would never speak for Don however my thoughts are, when a hitter makes up their mind to swing there is a fine line of hips and elbows and that is really individual verses one size fits all in my opinion. I see a flat footed hitter with little momentum try to get it going by being dominate with the upper body first verses flowing to the ball.
I see a more balanced hitter stepping on their lead edge of the front foot still making up their mind and being able to hold back by not lowering the back elbow and thus holding the hands back even though the hips were still in movement. I think Sue Engusit pointed it out very well in the adjust phase of RVP that the movement of the hip not stopping until the hitter reads slow or fast and then trying to get to heel plant is what separates the elite hitters and she shows a hitter adjusting to a slower pitch and a faster pitch and both were home runs.The shots were taken from behind and you can see the hips action being delayed on the slower pitch and the hip action being quicker on the faster pitch. Possibly this adjustment can be seen as improving your swing as you become more aware of what your instincts are and becoming more aware of your body as your swing matures. I do not think it is a simple as turning on a light switch of go or no go or on or off. Timing and how we teach where the hitter could be verses where they choose to be is a factor also and to a degree is part of their athleticism. I would like the hitter to load when the pitcher is in their K position and to be at toe touch, on the inside edge of their lead foot with a flexed knee when she releases the ball. Now having wished for that perfect gift how do we teach it or does it evolve as the hitter is learning what the pitchers are trying to do and that is deceive us and throw our timing and rhythm off.
I also know I can send a 300 pound man flying backwards with a perfectly timed two inch punch and driving off my big toe. It is a learned technique and skill just like hitting and we all do it a little different and they have averages to judge who is doing it good, better and best and then there is everyone who knows exactly what they think is perfect.
Thanks Howard
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what ruins peoples swings is uninformed cue interpretation.
Howard gave a perfect example in explaining how even the "rock skipping cue" can be well interpreted even though it is not applicable if taken too far or too literally.
Again, the learning of the high level swing pattern is via invoking an inborn pattern that organizes learning. Get enough right/avoid pattern killer details and you can accelerate/streamline the taking over of the pattern.
Slaught has a LOT righ, including the "elbow starts the swing" idea.
The back elbow starts untipping/uncocking/rearward acceleratiion of the barrel PRIMARILY by back arm external rotation as the back elbow stays up and back, just like loading for the overhand throw.
At the same time the front leg externally rotates and then the hips start to open. Upper and lower body actions are synched and are ground up for lower body and barrel down for upper body.
This gives the barrel a running start that is out of plane (bat more vertical than eventual swing plane or hips) that is out of phase (barrel going rearward, hips opening forward that enables a controlled stretch of torso that is adjustable late.
This early phase is same as Epstein's "rubberbandwinding" which is a necessary preparation for "drop and tilt" at GO.
Slaught and Epstein are not perfect, but they have adequate mechanical descriptions and they avoid deal killer/pattern kiler advice like trying to turn the shoulders to turn the bat.
Shoulders resist turning by tilt (and reactive force/inertia produced by upper body turning bat rearward) and are then turned by connection to torso as hip turn works its way up
Howard gave a perfect example in explaining how even the "rock skipping cue" can be well interpreted even though it is not applicable if taken too far or too literally.
Again, the learning of the high level swing pattern is via invoking an inborn pattern that organizes learning. Get enough right/avoid pattern killer details and you can accelerate/streamline the taking over of the pattern.
Slaught has a LOT righ, including the "elbow starts the swing" idea.
The back elbow starts untipping/uncocking/rearward acceleratiion of the barrel PRIMARILY by back arm external rotation as the back elbow stays up and back, just like loading for the overhand throw.
At the same time the front leg externally rotates and then the hips start to open. Upper and lower body actions are synched and are ground up for lower body and barrel down for upper body.
This gives the barrel a running start that is out of plane (bat more vertical than eventual swing plane or hips) that is out of phase (barrel going rearward, hips opening forward that enables a controlled stretch of torso that is adjustable late.
This early phase is same as Epstein's "rubberbandwinding" which is a necessary preparation for "drop and tilt" at GO.
Slaught and Epstein are not perfect, but they have adequate mechanical descriptions and they avoid deal killer/pattern kiler advice like trying to turn the shoulders to turn the bat.
Shoulders resist turning by tilt (and reactive force/inertia produced by upper body turning bat rearward) and are then turned by connection to torso as hip turn works its way up
