Looking for advice - see video

David Carter said:

Definitely want to see front toss or live swing, she seems to be really leaning over the ball and staring down but I am guessing that is just because the ball is on the tee she could not see the pitch coming in that position so she has to look a little different live.

I noticed the arm straightening thing as well but somehow she seems to unlocked it as she comes around but it is a bad habit that needs fixing. Her negative motion is more of a rock back or hip sway/turn and not true load but I see her biggest problem as hands first. If you slow it way down you can see that the frame before she puts pressure on her front toe she has started to initiate her swing. Look at the gif of Carberra at toe touch you see him coiling and reaching back not leaking forward he is creating separation and resistance so he unleash that power but he won't do that until heel plant and his bottom half starts, first he will keep the upper half still or maybe even reach back a little more just prior to letting his upper half go.

In your DDs case she has already started everything going forward so by the time her foot is planted all her power is not there. Fear not this is actually very common. The biggest thing to get her to understand is as her leg comes back and she starts her negative motion her upper half should be going back as well (which she is doing OK) but then as her front foot goes forward she needs either keep the upper half still or ideally reach back even more (I'm with rdb a little tilt would be bonus).

Click to expand...

I agree with all of the above, 100%. Good analysis and tips.

I have posted this many times, but it won't hurt to do it again;



As to what David Carter stated: note how his hands stay above the red vertical line, as his lower body moves to the green line. Boxes 1 to 3. In box 3 his hands are still back.

Guys,
Got jammed up at work today. I do have some front toss that is about 6 weeks old and a few game shots I can get off my iphone. We have a gmae tonight with her league team, so I will get some tonight also. I will get them posted tonight and follow up specifically to all your posts. Thanks for all the input so far, you guys are awesome!

sballdad said:

First off, I want to thank all of you on this site who contribute so much helping out all of us in the fastpitch commuity. I have been lurking on here for some time and using much of what I have been able to understand.

Looking for advice for my daughter. 13 year old, 5'8", good hitter looking to get better. She's been playing tournament ball for 4 years. She is a great pitcher and spends a lot of time working her trade, but recently been struggling more than usual hitting, so I am reaching out to the experts on here for help.








She has struggled with popups and weaker than normal hits that are easy infield outs. I got her a 33" Rocketflex this year since she had a Rocketech 2 years ago and loved it, but I think the end load and overall weight was causing her to drop her hands too much. I went out last week and got her a CF6 that I can tell her swing speed is better and hitting more line drives already. Still see her dropping her hands more than I would like. We have been doing alot of high tee work and partials (swings to contact) with a big nerf ball under her arms and also a homemade connector device. We will also mix in a whiphit to change things up and been doing some SnF drills.

I want to address the dropping of her hands and would of course would like more power. Straightleg, SB, rdbass, Redhotcoach, FFS and any others please chime in if you have a chance.

Thank you all in advance.

Click to expand...

She could look at the pitcher when working off the tee, then track back to the tee to hit. Try to do a better elvis move to get the better weight shift. Doing this will help correct the upper body ahead swing.
Working lessons lately with Casey leading them while she is on break.
Will film some updated elvis with her and post it on youtube



Straightleg

Again I have to apologize for the slow response on here....ac went out on Tues plus we are playing in an out of town tourney over the 4th so havent been in front of my comp much. We have been working on some of this, but she is struggling to feel the coil/load. Her hitting instructor was trying to get her to stick her hip out like that to feel it and try to keep her from swaying. I have shown her the videos trying to get her to see it, then hopefully she can start doing some mirror work on her own. Stick with the SnF drill for this?

Again her instructor also promotes catching the ball out front, but what I see alot in games especially against slower pitching is that she is so far out front and can't hit with much power. We will definately start moving the tee back.

I see the front arm getting extended issue the more video that I look at. Because she is getting long I think that is what is also causing her hands to drop at times.

I agree with the comments about getting her to over swing. She is almost too careful at times trying to do things correct, but she needs to push herself until her mechanincs start to come apart then adjust.

We will start more of this on Sunday once her tournament is over...dont want her thinking too much while in the box this weekend.


Here is some front toss we just got in on Wednesday.

Here's a game swing also.

In the game video, check her position at 0:06 (actually more like 0:06 1/2), or the point of heel drop. At this launch position, her bat has become horizontal too soon, IMO. Compare that to the launch position in the still shot of the MLB hitter in post #11, third photo from the left. (Would like to get others' opinion as to whether they view this as a problem.)

CoogansBluff said:

In the game video, check her position at 0:06 (actually more like 0:06 1/2), or the point of heel drop. At this launch position, her bat has become horizontal too soon, IMO. Compare that to the launch position in the still shot of the MLB hitter in post #11, third photo from the left. (Would like to get others' opinion as to whether they view this as a problem.)

Click to expand...

It's like you're reading my mind! I was in the middle of a lengthy post about this, trying to find the right way to write it and gave up. I'll follow your lead and finish.

Basically, with an "arm swinger" who pushes vs. pulls, where do the hands start to release into contact? (Understanding that the release will be slightly different for inside/outside/offspeed pitches - I get that.) It looks like when a kid releases the hands early, it causes the extended front arm which results in the arm-push swing, causing them to level out their shoulders and roll over early with a downward-planed swing. Is the release of the hands as the hands approach/pass the front hip? I've read that the upper body essentially moves as a unit initially (allowing for the "running start"/turning the barrel/leveling the barrel) during the initial rotation, but where do the arms really start working "forward"?

I'm working with an individual student as well as a high school full of kids who have been taught to "swing level" who have the same issue (as do many learning hitters). We're turning the triangle/pulling with the front side, making adjustments based on the path of the ball after contact, etc., to work on this, but there are still times where they are rolling over early & swinging down.

Is there a cue/visual/explanation of a mechanic that can help with this. I guess I'm looking for something "cleaner" to use than what I've been using. (I told you this was long!) Thanks!

My go-to drill for someone swinging out of sync (arms/hands/top half swinging ahead of the hips/bottom half) is the check-swing drill. This drill starts with the player in the position of the 3rd frame in jbooth's hitting sequence in post 11. Emphasis should be on the hips forward and hands back. This is the start position. The player swings from this position.

Use this drill with the tee, with front toss, with machine, with live pitching in practice. The more the better. The swings should be over swings. Primary focus is hips forward, hands up and back. Throw in an 18" wooden bat for learning to let the ball get deep.

This is an uncomfortable drill but usually has almost immediate results. Compare their swings shortly after using this drill and you'll see a difference in the hips leading.

sballdad said:

Again I have to apologize for the slow response on here....ac went out on Tues plus we are playing in an out of town tourney over the 4th so havent been in front of my comp much. We have been working on some of this, but she is struggling to feel the coil/load. Her hitting instructor was trying to get her to stick her hip out like that to feel it and try to keep her from swaying. I have shown her the videos trying to get her to see it, then hopefully she can start doing some mirror work on her own. Stick with the SnF drill for this?

Again her instructor also promotes catching the ball out front, but what I see alot in games especially against slower pitching is that she is so far out front and can't hit with much power. We will definately start moving the tee back.

I see the front arm getting extended issue the more video that I look at. Because she is getting long I think that is what is also causing her hands to drop at times.

I agree with the comments about getting her to over swing. She is almost too careful at times trying to do things correct, but she needs to push herself until her mechanincs start to come apart then adjust.

We will start more of this on Sunday once her tournament is over...dont want her thinking too much while in the box this weekend.


Here is some front toss we just got in on Wednesday.

Click to expand...

This is simply a case of 'bat drag' and not understanding how to 'turn the barrel'.

sballdad,
Do you see your DD as having bat drag? Here is what it is:
What Bat Drag Looks Like
What happens during Bat Brag is that, fairly early on in the swing, the hitter's back elbow will get well ahead of their hands. That is what you can see in the picture below:



Bat Drag
In the worst, and most problematic, cases of Bat Drag, the hitter's back elbow, rather than staying near their rear hip, will slide well forward of their back hip.

Bat Drag
The result is that, at the Point Of Contact, the hitter's back elbow will be well ahead of their hands, their back elbow will be well forward of their back hip, and their back upper arm will be almost horizontal rather than nearly vertical.

Why Bat Drag Happens
The most common problem that you see in younger baseball and fast pitch softball players, and some older ones as well, is that they try to do too much with their arms and don't get the rest of their body involved.

When they throw, they throw with just their arms, using a motion that is commonly referred to as, "Throwing like a girl." When they hit, they stay upright, adjust with their arms, and drop their hands.

The same basic thing happens in a hitter with Bat Drag.
Instead of powering their swing with their entire body, they power their swing with their arms.

As they try to swing with their arms -- and because their back arm is usually their dominant arm -- their back arm and top hand overpower their swing. That causes their back elbow to slide forward as it tries to get to a position of leverage, putting the hitter in a position of Bat Drag.

Why Bat Drag is Problematic
Bat Drag is problematic because it can change the timing, sequencing, and plane of the swing.

Bat Drag changes where, when, and how the bat head starts to whip; it delays the whipping of the bat head. That lengthens the swing and forces the hitter to make contact with the ball later and farther out front than is typical. That can also reduce the force with which the barrel whips through the point of contact and keep the hitter from hitting the ball as hard as they could.

Bat Drag creates a swing that is sometimes very powerful but that is always very long; too long to catch up to a good fastball. As players get older (e.g. older than 11 years old or so) the result of a swing with Bat Drag is occasionally lots of powerfully hit foul balls and/or hits to the opposite field. However, in many cases the result of Bat Drag is simply lots of swinging strikes.

In the case of many kids that I know, Bat Drag can turn a 5th grade, .500-average power hitter into a 6th grader who struggles to get one weak hit per game.