Need help with what I think is "casting"

FiveFrameSwing said:

An example of someone teaching this the Don Slaught "leading with the front elbow" approach.

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Mann ... this is the coaching that Pacific was receiving prior to going with Sparky for hitting instruction. I think you can see why there was an improvement when they moved away from this type of teaching.

Slaught leaves behind a far better offensive club than when he took over. The Tigers finished ninth among American League teams in batting average As the hitting coach for Detroit. He only left to work on his business RVP and spend time for his kids. Hew hit over 300 four times as a catcher and one year he hit 345 as a MLB. I guess he doesn't know how to hit! Someone on the internet should have shown him!

SBFAMILY said:

Slaught leaves behind a far better offensive club than when he took over. The Tigers finished ninth among American League teams in batting average As the hitting coach for Detroit. He only left to work on his business RVP and spend time for his kids. Hew hit over 300 four times as a catcher and one year he hit 345 as a MLB. I guess he doesn't know how to hit! Someone on the internet should have shown him!

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I'm not sure what you mean here. From memory, there was no notable improvement in the team's BA when Slaught took over ... relative to the prior year. Are you saying that after Slaught left that the team's hitting improved ... perhaps as a result of what he taught? Some facts to back up your claims here would be appreciated.

p.s.
More to the point ... can you show MLB swings demonstrating this 3" leading with the lead elbow ... perhaps apply the Hanson Principle?

Ayone can google it to prove my point! The dark you posted was a cut and paste from the web. If you can post your MLB creditials as posted by Ken, then perhaps others will pay attention. From my knowledge , I don't think you have played the game at his level. Most of us can't that post on here and other sites. We can all talk the talk but have walked the walk.

SBFAMILY said:

Ayone can google it to prove my point! The dark you posted was a cut and paste from the web. If you can post your MLB creditials as posted by Ken, then perhaps others will pay attention. From my knowledge , I don't think you have played the game at his level. Most of us can't that post on here and other sites. We can all talk the talk but have walked the walk.

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I am missing where you are supporting, via the Hanson Principle, the notion of initiating the swing with a "first move" shoving the lead elbow forward by 3-inches. Probably for a very good reason ... because you can't.

For the record, Don Slaught oversaw the Tigers offense in 2006.

In 2005 the Tigers finished their regular season with a BA of 0.272.

In 2006 the Tigers finished their regular season with a BA of 0.274.

In 2007 the Tigers finished their regular season with a BA of 0.287.

What the facts indicate is that the team had a higher BA the year after Don left the team.

That isn't to say that Don was a bad coach ... it is just stating the facts.

If you care to continue promoting the concept of initiating the swing with a 3-inch shove of the lead elbow, then please follow up with verification via the Hanson Principle.

This is actually a very good discussion. I know folks can get frustrated when FFS doesn't seem to just let it go but the question of what we teach a kid when they initiate a swing is really important.

My youngest dd is 13, hits lead off and is a very good hitter. I teach her and 10 others on our team and for their age they are certainly at least in the top 25% in the state among travelers as a group when it comes to hitting. Mine hits in the neighborhood of .400 and is a line drive hitter. I do not teach inward movement of the hands and I use no training devices with the exception of a homemade connection device (like Mankin sells). I have also seen some really dynamite hitters who have been instructed with the poke the elbow cue which as of now i would never teach.

I think my question would be what are the hitters actually doing when they swing in a game(Hanson Principal)? I would love for example to see an actual game or machine swing of the girl demonstrating the WhipHit to see if she is actually poking the elbow 3"-4". Can anyone that does WhipHit training show a game swing where the player does that elbow poke. I would be curious.

lhowser said:

This is actually a very good discussion. I know folks can get frustrated when FFS doesn't seem to just let it go but the question of what we teach a kid when they initiate a swing is really important.

My youngest dd is 13, hits lead off and is a very good hitter. I teach her and 10 others on our team and for their age they are certainly at least in the top 25% in the state among travelers as a group when it comes to hitting. Mine hits in the neighborhood of .400 and is a line drive hitter. I do not teach inward movement of the hands and I use no training devices with the exception of a homemade connection device (like Mankin sells). I have also seen some really dynamite hitters who have been instructed with the poke the elbow cue which as of now i would never teach.

I think my question would be what are the hitters actually doing when they swing in a game(Hanson Principal)? I would love for example to see an actual game or machine swing of the girl demonstrating the WhipHit to see if she is actually poking the elbow 3"-4". Can anyone that does WhipHit training show a game swing where the player does that elbow poke. I would be curious.

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How one captures transition of the barrel is key to hitting ... and it will largely determine how the swing is powered. Folks buying into the notion of shoving the lead elbow forward 3-inches to initiate the swing should ask for verification and apply the Hanson Principle. You can really screw up a kid's swing by teaching nonsense ... especially when it deals with the capture of barrel transition.

So let's see it ... folks that support the notion of leading with a 3-inch elbow shove ... where is your video confirmation?

Hi Lhowser. It's a bad cue and we need to get it out of the game at all levels so it doesn't filter down. It doesn't matter if a hitter "overcomes" the bad cue in the box and in her game swing. Many hitters won't.

It's also a very common bit of hitting instruction even at the highest levels of fastpitch still today - drive everything forward and whip out front away from the body. It can look very athletic but it is not what the best do, which we all talk about here every day.

We had a girl join our 18U team this fall who was taught by a very well-known instructor with all the great credentials that get tossed around at times. He taught her to drive off her back toe and throw her hands forward. I've been working with her on SnF and other elements for about a month now and she's thrilled at how solidly she is hitting the ball. I had to gain her trust over a number of hitting sessions and SHOW her where her old mechanics failed her and how better mechanics can help her. She's a smart girl and asked good questions and together we moved forward. Bad cues can not only hold back well-meaning girls but well-meaning instructors as well.

Notice how the gentlemen in the video credits Slaught with bringing MLB mechanics into fastpitch. He certainly advanced some things with RVP. But we can go further and do better. And look, that's not criticizing Slaught, who I don't know nor do I now what he teaches today...but it does criticize -- as both you and FFS criticized in your posts -- the three inch forward elbow poke.

I hope the coaches/dads/players that use the WhipHit instruction will expand the conversation with game or at least machine video that to their eye demonstrates the forward elbow movement.

on occasion though I do not teach it I will see a clip of a successful hitter that seems to demonstrate more of the

t's also a very common bit of hitting instruction even at the highest levels of fastpitch still today - drive everything forward and whip out front away from the body. It can look very athletic but it is not what the best do, which we all talk about here every day.

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but not that often. It does make me always reexamine the idea to see what role that sometimes has in a successful swing.

Right, I think that's what I wrote, or at least what I meant it to say : >

I tweaked my earlier post for clarity's sake.