Tennessee coaches unhappy with California pitcher's shoe flap

[KCPRK]

My logic says if you release the ball closer to the batter it reduces their reaction time. Whether you leap, crow hop, or use your clown shoes to get there. To me that's an advantage.

Just because one persons experience may not be that way doesn't mean that anothers wouldn't be. That's a closed minded approach IMHO.

And I do agree that one can go back and forth in their mechanics (leap or CH Im not gonna get into that argument). I see it everyday and have pitchers that do it. If an umpire warns them they magically stop or reduce it. Then they ease back into it because they feel it gives them an advantage. Their stats show it does as well.

Just my small piece of the world persepective. Im no scientist studying the effects of illegal pitching like many here seem to be

 

[29dad]

I'm sure we all lean one way or the other on the leap debate, but in my opinion if you're completely rigid and not at least a little bit conflicted, you're not credible. To me it's like holding in football. It is obviously selectively enforced. The refs could call it on every play, but the sport would become unwatchable. Likewise the leap rule. The NCAA umps rigidly enforced it several years ago and the softball community had a collective heart attack. Doesn't exactly make for great television.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I'm sure we all lean one way or the other on the leap debate, but in my opinion if you're completely rigid and not at least a little bit conflicted, you're not credible. To me it's like holding in football. It is obviously selectively enforced. The refs could call it on every play, but the sport would become unwatchable. Likewise the leap rule. The NCAA umps rigidly enforced it several years ago and the softball community had a collective heart attack. Doesn't exactly make for great television.

Along those lines- if there wasn't some rigidity in the positions on the debate, the thread would not be as entertaining.

If we all were as reasonable as your post we would go over to the tech hitting forum for some action.

 

[1bucketmom]

1. Glad she's wearing the "flap" - if it started this great convo here, I can only hope the convos are happening throughout softball

2. My issue is what happens with her "drag foot" at release - this "kick out" appears to generate extra umph in her pitch. I've seen this several times at all different levels. I've even heard PC/bucket parents trying to teach this kick out....not sure if this promotes the crow hop or a side effect. All I know.... This kick out does generate more speed and usually preceded by both feet of the ground. If this is a technically a crow hop then it's an issue. During a fall game, on pitcher was severely kicking out after both feet being off the ground. When she was "warned" the pitch speed fell a bit and her accuracy dropped too.

 

[sluggers]

THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO A LEAP!!!!

If there was then every international pitcher and NPF pitcher would leap.

I disagree. They all "leap"--leap being defined as not maintaining contact with the ground. They don't have these huge leaps, but they do leap.

 

[knightsb]

...To me it's like holding in football. It is obviously selectively enforced. The refs could call it on every play, but the sport would become unwatchable. Likewise the leap rule. The NCAA umps rigidly enforced it several years ago and the softball community had a collective heart attack. Doesn't exactly make for great television.

29dad, to add to your point:

I had a conversation with a former coach for the NPF Chicago Bandits regarding illegal pitching. He said the umpires come under a lot of pressure for calling IPs. Frequent IP calls impact the fan experience, and televised game times. This former coach said whenever Abbott would be called for an IP, the HC would call time and leisurely stroll across the field to get a explanation on the IP from the umpire who made the call. For every IP called, play is interrupted, the flow of the game interrupted, and add several minutes to the elapsed game time for the post call explanation.

 

[grmerrill]

And there it is, who didn't see that coming.

Nice out of context quote. I got a little whif of where you were coming from in your first post. Now you confirmed you are just trying to stir the pot.

If you haven't noticed, there is a tone of mutual respect between both sides of this argument. When you pop off you just look like a jerk.

You finally have the reason why you are so adamant that the toe flap is not cheating, why it is not cheating if you are a famous pitcher.

If anyone is dishonest in this discussion it's you. It took what 14, 15 pages for you to finally state the reason behind your opinion.

It's easy, rules are a big deal to those that can't follow them.

Let me tell you my point, my daughter drags, we have focused on following what is in the rulebook. She had been called for IPs and we focus on the correction, not the justification. And we don't care about Cat Ostermans leap because it doesn't change her mechanics.

Btw, your funniest justification was about the flap helping her feel the ground.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I disagree. They all "leap"--leap being defined as not maintaining contact with the ground. They don't have these huge leaps, but they do leap.

are you sure about this? I looked at clips of quite a few NPF pitchers and saw a lot that did not leap. I am pretty darn sure Abbot, Ricketts, and Gasciogne definitely do not leap, at least not in the clips I watched.

 

[KCPRK]

are you sure about this? I looked at clips of quite a few NPF pitchers and saw a lot that did not leap. I am pretty darn sure Abbot, Ricketts, and Gasciogne definitely do not leap, at least not in the clips I watched.

We just haven't "caught them yet" lol

If they do it only once well glorify it here.

 

[JJsqueeze]

You finally have the reason why you are so adamant that the toe flap is not cheating, why it is not cheating if you are a famous pitcher.

If anyone is dishonest in this discussion it's you. It took what 14, 15 pages for you to finally state the reason behind your opinion.

It's easy, rules are a big deal to those that can't follow them.

Let me tell you my point, my daughter drags, we have focused on following what is in the rulebook. She had been called for IPs and we focus on the correction, not the justification. And we don't care about Cat Ostermans leap because it doesn't change her mechanics.

Btw, your funniest justification was about the flap helping her feel the ground.

You are so chock full of misunderstanding it is hard to untangle. I'll try though.

Being famous has nothing to do with my opinion. If you could read you would see that my pointing out all of those high profile pitchers was aimed at the selective enforcement issue. Some are chosen as leapers and some are not.

My daughter does not leap in games, at least not anymore. She did last year but it was very small so it went unnoticed by all but me, she has never been called, no opposing coach has ever asked an ump to watch it, none of her coaches have mentioned it. I see her in practice so I know the propensity is there.

So if she did leap and does not anymore, what does that say about our respect for the rules? Must have enough respect to put in the work to get her legal because it doesn't magically happen. And it wasn't because she was being called- she wasn't.

My opinion on this formed the minute I tried to throw a pitch underhanded. When I found out the men's and international games allow it, that opinion solidified.

So think before you make asinine conclusions about people you don't know.