Critique / Help Series of Swings

[Steve Huff]

OK. thanks. So you do not believe that the hands should stay connected to the shoulder the whole swing?

Connection is something that is achieved and passed through?

Again, thanks.

It is largely a linear phase. The hips rotate, the hands follow to the hip. That is linear. The bat follows the hands. the hands move from a fingers up position, around the shoulder, the bat follows to the hip, fingers still pointed up, the hands get ahead of the hip a little, and the contact is made as that arm frame moves toward full extension. But extension too far out in front of the body at contact is less powerful. And the ideal wrist angle break is about 12-20 degrees. After that the arms are too extended and the wrists less involved to impart power.

 

[straightleg]

I would prefer to characterize it as the "frame", or arm frame, what we sometimes call the "box". That frame is the shoulders, and the arms in that "V" frame. The front arm determines the angle of the swing. The bat and front arm should be linear, as in a straight horizontal or diagonal plane. The shoulder tilts to accommodate that the tilt in the arm frame. They work together as one non-static unit. In other words, they move to accommodate the adjustments of the box to the pitch. This is done at the waist and hips to maintain balance.

View attachment 3189 View attachment 3190 View attachment 3191 View attachment 3192

This last photo shows an improper "frame" with the forearm and bat not lined up. The bat is almost horizontal, the arms diagonal.

View attachment 3193

I agree with allot of what you said in this post. Many believe you just need to turn the barrel, there is no box.

How does bond get into this position in the swing.
He turned his body some before he released the bat head to impact.

SL

 

[mann]

I would prefer to characterize it as the "frame", or arm frame, what we sometimes call the "box". That frame is the shoulders, and the arms in that "V" frame. The front arm determines the angle of the swing. The bat and front arm should be linear, as in a straight horizontal or diagonal plane. The shoulder tilts to accommodate that the tilt in the arm frame. They work together as one non-static unit. In other words, they move to accommodate the adjustments of the box to the pitch. This is done at the waist and hips to maintain balance.

View attachment 3189 View attachment 3190 View attachment 3191 View attachment 3192

This last photo shows an improper "frame" with the forearm and bat not lined up. The bat is almost horizontal, the arms diagonal.

View attachment 3193

Which is why i say the triangle is the box, the box is the triangle. Guys just get all bent on words.

Tilt as you turn. all good with me on your approach.
I also now use the turn the barrel, along with form and turn the box, granted, i have used this cue, with girls that already know, and have worked with me on box.

It works like this for me,, When they turn the barrel, they also form the box, without knowing it. The pivot point, release point, are created, maybe better, or easier, you could say.
Then with using the turn the barrel, you work on your tilt, Using rear side lats, with the same exact hand path, short and quick turn of the barrel,,, to adjust high,,,, low. For outside, they just turn the barrel,,, away, towards right.

 

[HYP]

It is largely a linear phase. The hips rotate, the hands follow to the hip. That is linear. The bat follows the hands. the hands move from a fingers up position, around the shoulder, the bat follows to the hip, fingers still pointed up, the hands get ahead of the hip a little, and the contact is made as that arm frame moves toward full extension. But extension too far out in front of the body at contact is less powerful. And the ideal wrist angle break is about 12-20 degrees. After that the arms are too extended and the wrists less involved to impart power.

So, the hands following rotating hips is linear?

It sounds like what you are describing is a knob pull. Force applied down the length of the bat and not perpendicular to the handle.

How does the barrel get out there? Does it just fly off the merry go round?

 

[RayR]

Mann - the box is not a triangle - you learn that in kindergarten....

The box is shoulder driven or arm driven - it is about rotation of the shoulders first to get the barrel around. It is about keeping the front arm bent. It is about swinging out front. It is about pulling the handle.

The triangle is cue to turn the barrel rearward. An easy way to think of it is that the triangle is facing the ground on the set up and you turn it quickly so that it faces the pitcher as part of the swing...It is about swinging deep staying behind the rear leg longer. It requires a lateral tilt of the shoulders...meaning rear shoulder under front shoulder before the shoulder go into horizontal rotation....it is about turning the handle.

 

[Marcus]

Maybe once the barrel tip moved he committed to check his swing? Or maybe he realized that his barrel wasn't connected to his shoulder so he had no chance? Or maybe those ladies behind the back stop were making fun of his goofy swing and he over heard it mid swing?

My guess is that he simply stopped turning the barrel and decided to take the pitch.

 

[RayR]

That's preposterous....once the barrel gets tipped he is committed unless it is a low pitch and then will be less commitment or a high pitch that is if he guessed right and that the rear shoulder didn't drop unless he guessed it was outside and then the barrel tip would commit but because he was using a 34 oz bat he might have been able to connect the bat to his shoulder longer....I know it's you teacherman even though I am not sure....

My guess is that he simply stopped turning the barrel and decided to take the pitch.

 

[Marcus]

That's preposterous....once the barrel gets tipped he is committed unless it is a low pitch and then will be less commitment or a high pitch that is if he guessed right and that the rear shoulder didn't drop unless he guessed it was outside and then the barrel tip would commit but because he was using a 34 oz bat he might have been able to connect the bat to his shoulder longer....I know it's you teacherman even though I am not sure....

In all honesty, the barrel was in motion before knowledge of pitch location was determined. He stopped turning the barrel and shut down the connection being used to assist in delivering the barrel. When folks begin swinging then they can begin learning more about what is below the surface.

 

[crankermo]

Good info is good info ,doesn't matter where it came from.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Steve - If you weren't trying to understand, I don't believe you'd put yourself through this aggravation.

Here's another way to think about the benefit of turning the barrel that might help. Here's the set up: You have 10 tries to run a 20 yard dash 0.2 seconds faster than your current personal best to win more money than you'll ever need for the rest of your life. You can start whenever you want and the timers are photoelectronic and trip when you pass them. Here's the kicker - during a randomly selected 9 of those 10 tries a red stop light gets turned on 1 yard after the start and you MUST stop before the 6 yard mark or else you will be disqualified and MTS will get all the money.

Here's the question: How would you prefer to start?
A) Standing still or in a sprinter's crouch just behind the starting line (and trying to channel Tommie Smith circa 1968)
B) hitting the starting line running at top speed (hoping that the red light doesn't come on, but knowing that the house always comes out ahead)
C) hitting the starting line running at the fastest speed at which you know you can stop in time if the red light comes on (while thinking about what cities you'd put new NFP teams in as the new benefactor/commissioner)

IMO, answer C is the psuedo-equivalent of that initial turning of the barrel that gives a hitter the bat speed and adjustability they need to hit any pitch, without guessing.

OK, so maybe this wasn't a good analogy, but how many people said Tommie who???