Time call??

[GOINGDEEP]

I'm not going to post the result or how I feel about this call. I want to get your clear input. Then I'll post the results.

HS game last week. 1 out, runner on second and third. Girl pops out to center ( out ) third tags up and goes home. Girl on second left and never tagged up. An over throw to home and she crosses the plate. ( girl on second )

Then the catcher fires back to second to tag the bag. Umpire calls her out. Then of coarse both coaches come out and discuss the play for 20 mins. ( it was the winning run-- girl on second )

So was it a force out, and the run doesn't count?

Or is it a time play? Run counts?

 

[ctfastpitch]

I believe that is a live-ball appeal and the first run scores......a live ball appeal is not a force out. Not sure the terminology is right, but a force out is when either the batter/runner is put out at first, or when a runner who is required to vacate a base fails to safely reach the next base. Since the runner at 2B did not have to leave the base, there can be no force out.

However, if the runner at 3B left early and the live ball appeal was made at 3B, I am pretty sure in that case, the runner scoring from 2B would NOT count.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I believe that is a live-ball appeal and the first run scores......a live ball appeal is not a force out. Not sure the terminology is right, but a force out is when either the batter/runner is put out at first, or when a runner who is required to vacate a base fails to safely reach the next base. Since the runner at 2B did not have to leave the base, there can be no force out.

However, if the runner at 3B left early and the live ball appeal was made at 3B, I am pretty sure in that case, the runner scoring from 2B would NOT count.

The girl from 3rd tagged up. The girl on 2nd did not. The play was on the girl at second AFTER she ( girl from 2nd ) crossed the plate.

Sorry maybe I needed to make it more clear.

 

[ctfastpitch]

The girl from 3rd tagged up. The girl on 2nd did not. The play was on the girl at second AFTER she ( girl from 2nd ) crossed the plate.

Sorry maybe I needed to make it more clear.

No, you were clear...my answer may have been a bit confusing. My first paragraph applies to the situation you described. Live ball appeal to 2B in not a force. The run scored from 3B counts.

My "however" was a hypothetical example that would have a different result.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Agree w/ CTFP - 1 run scored before inning ended w/ the live appeal at 2B.

 

[FPump]

I'm not going to post the result or how I feel about this call. I want to get your clear input. Then I'll post the results.

HS game last week. 1 out, runner on second and third. Girl pops out to center ( out ) third tags up and goes home. Girl on second left and never tagged up. An over throw to home and she crosses the plate. ( girl on second )

Then the catcher fires back to second to tag the bag. Umpire calls her out. Then of coarse both coaches come out and discuss the play for 20 mins. ( it was the winning run-- girl on second ).

So was it a force out, and the run doesn't count?

Or is it a time play? Run counts?

Based on the situation as posted....

Live ball or dead ball appeal has no bearing on this play.
This is not a force out.
R3 scores and her run counts.
R2 out on appeal for leaving 2B prior to the catch by the CF. 3rd out of the inning.
I will repeat....THIS IS NOT A FORCE OUT.

This is umpiring 101.....I cannot believe that a 20 min. discussion with the coaches took place. I can only assume that in your frustration over the situation you are exaggerating that a bit.
i anxiously await your answer as to what the umpires ruled.

 

[BretMan]

That a runner called out on a live ball appeal for leaving base early on a catch is a force out is perhaps one of the most common rule misconceptions. This question comes up again-and-again on internet discussion boards and in games I'm involved with. Heck, the season is just getting underway and this is the second time I've seen this same question in the past week! And, I'm sure we'll see it many more times before the season is over.

You already got the right answer. It's not a force out. It's a timing play, so named because the timing of the appeal for leaving early determines if the run scores or not. If the runner from third crosses the plate BEFORE the third out appeal play, the run counts. If the runner from third crosses the plate AFTER the third out appeal play, the run does not count.

It sounds like she crossed the plate before the appeal, so the runner from third scores. The runner from second is out on the appeal, so her run is cancelled. That's three outs...let's change sides!

 

[shockcoach]

Yep, what Bret said. If CF threw to 2nd base before R3 scores, you have the 3rd out and no score. Since this did not happen, R3's run counts and R2's does not.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Sorry for the delay. I had no ties to the teams playing, we were just scouting for future games later in the season.

After the 20 min discussion the umpires awarded BOTH runs. Which I felt was wrong. I never got to find out "how or what call they made", I was just guessing what they might have thought.

The funny thing to this whole situation was where they were playing. The home school is notorious for 'home cooked calls'. But they awarded the runs to the visitors, and the visitors won. That's what made it sooooooo strange.

Before the 20 min discussion the blue had called the runner at second out. Then awarded her the run after? Weird, because she clearly left after the pitch, heck she was halfway to third when the fly ball was caught. Maybe the home coach should have ordered a breathalyzer for the umps. Never seen anything like it.

Thank you all for your input.