Runner on second and third

[rowdy]

So I am sitting watching my daughter play HS ball the other night and a thought comes to mind. The situation is runners on second and third with no outs when the batter hits a ball to second base who is playing in to shut down the run.

Over the years my thought has been to hold the runner at third unless I feel pretty good about the chances of her scoring. I would say taking the conservative or safe play.

So here was my thought. If I try to score the runner no matter where the ball is hit I will have the same situation that I had before, runners on second and third but now with one out. Defense is usually playing in a little so my runner can get a running start on the pitch with little risk of being picked off by the catcher giving me about a 45 foot play.

Where am I wrong?

 

[quincy]

Our season hasn’t started yet but that is the plan for this year. The strategy makes sense to me but we will have to see how it works.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/coaching-softball/8068-runners-2nd-3rd.html

 

[BB875]

Its been discussed here over and over, but I still stand by what I was taught. In the situation you described, the runners should go on any ground ball. Why give up an easy out at 1st base? NSC Clinic-Patrick Murphy speaker...

 

[Sweet Lou]

I think it depends on level of play and quality of opposing pitcher/catcher. At the lower levels, send the runner 100% of the time. Worst case is you have 1st /3rd one out on the tag play at home. Send the runner to 2nd on the next pitch and you are back to 2nd & 3rd one out.

When you get to a better level of play though the steal of 2nd can't be assumed so what you do will be dictated more by game situtaion and score. Sometimes running on contact is the correct play, sometimes waiting for the thorw to 1st and breaking for home is the right play, sometimes holding the runners is the correct play. I don't think there is a one size fits all for this scenario.

 

[BB875]

I'm just telling you what I do and the reason behind it. Everyone has their own style of coaching. I got burned this weekend on a different play that caught my defense off guard. We learned from it and adjusted. Now it won't happen again.

Of course, your parents (TB team) will think your are an idiot if your runner gets out at the plate because they always hear "Look her back and go 1" over and over. So, if you coach aggressively and your runner gets tagged out at the plate (even though I agree completely with the logic) you look stupid.

I have heard others mention a potential "double-play" off this? I would have to see it happen because I don't think a catcher would have enough time to receive a throw, tag the runner at the plate & then throw to 1st base to get the double play. Maybe if the batter-runner continues on to 2nd base and gets tagged there, but not at 1st base.

Any play can break down. That's why you practice them.

 

[rowdy]

As a team we have gotten very efficient at the look back and throw to first with the runner having no chance of advancing to home on the throw. It all comes down to when a team is playing in you have the opportunity to take a running lead so if the ball is hit you only have about 2/3 of the line to cover.

In most cases the runner will most likely be out, but the play at first is always going to be an out. I would also only consider doing this if I had the next runner at second that would be guaranteed to be standing on third when the play is over.

Being a conservative coach on a 16U-A level team makes me lean toward taking the out at 1st and leaving my runners at 2nd and 3rd. The thing is the level of pitching is getting so good that maybe it is worth the risk. Thanks for the input.

 

[Jr10234]

I saw a few of these with different outcomes in a single day.
1. Runner on 3 had a big lead, 3rd base was out of position so the pitcher froze, thought about throwing to third, turned and held the ball. Bases were then loaded.
2. Runner on 3rd saw it went to the shortstop, went back to the bag (no attempt by 3rd base to cover, but runner went back anyway), throw goes to 1, runner takes off from 3 and both 1st and home are out. Terrible base running, the girl would have been safe if she hadn't gone back to the bag.
3. Simple play of look back, still made the throw, and runner took off. Out at 1, safe at home.

I think if you want to pick off the runner at 3, you must pump throw 1 if runner is off the base at 3rd, but 3rd must be covered and players should be ready. This requires practice with all infielders to ensure they make the right play at the right time.

 

[oswegoponysoftball]

I agree 100%.

 

[Sparky Guy]

What I'll have a pitcher or 3rd baseman do is give a double fake against an aggressive team. The first one is the perfunctory kinda fake to 1st that most kids do. The second fake the player winds up like the are going to throw with a full step and full arm motion. The player must ABSOLUTELY understand what she is doing on both fakes. It's only good for once a game so it needs to be done in a critical situation.

Watched my DD do it once in a game. The runner on 3rd almost literally ran into her she gave that good of a fake. The look on the coaches face was priceless. He was the one telling the runner when to go.