NPF suspends operations. New pro team formed in Florida.

[Schmick's Gloves]

I guess you've never been to an SEC softball game and seen the fans base. Or seen a regional or super regional.

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I have been to Mary Nutter and Judi Garmin tournaments, I have been to college games at UCLA, Loyola Marymount, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St and Regionals at UCLA.
I've been to sec baseball games at LSU, Miss St, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Arkansas.
I watched my kid play at Texas A&M and Oklahoma in their stadiums this year. But no, I have never gone to a softball game at an sec stadium.
Based on the baseball games at sec stadiums I am still going to go with my original thesis that the majority of people there in the stands are there because they are students or fans of the athletic program at those universities and that same support would not follow a pro league.

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[Schmick's Gloves]

Fan interest aside, the difference between when professional baseball just started and the current situation for potential professional FP players, is that the economic prospects were, in general, much more bleak for potential players when baseball was just getting started. For the most part it was a question of do I want to work a low paying blue collar job for the whole year vs playing baseball (with a similar low pay) for 7 months and then work a low paying blue collar job in the winter. Baseball was able to sustain a professional league with minimal fan interest because of this...they always had players willing to make that choice.

I will accept that things are quite different now than they were in the late 1800s and baseball was getting its start. But there are still the 1900s where sports was huge for people. Look how many people went to see Rose Bowls or other ball games in the 1920s. There were 2 to 3 hundred thousand people that would show up at parades for USC football teams after national titles 100 years ago. They had to take seats out of the Colliseum and reduce capacity from 107k to 70k fans for games now.
MLB still has 120 years of building up fans and followers (even after you erase that first 40 years) and fastpitch has zero.
Softball has to build the foundation before they can even ask for a pro league where the players can sustain themselves off of what they would earn in player salaries and endorsements. Softball is light years away from that in the US

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[Schmick's Gloves]

Case in point, football is America's favorite spectator sport and that we can all agree on.
In 2019 Ohio State averaged 102,000 people at their home football games but the Cincinnati Bengals averaged 47,000 fans a game. Where did those other 55,000 people go? Same year Michigan averaged 111,000 fans per home game, the Detroit Lions average 60,000. Penn State averaged 106,000 and the Pittsburgh Steelers averaged 62,000. In sec country you had 101,000 fans show up at LSU games, the New Orleans Saints had 73,000.
The college teams have a built in fan base that support all of the athletic programs that the college has. These schools have spent 100+ years building up these loyal fan bases not to mention the captive audience of students, living on or near campus and the social event draw of going to support the schools athletic teams.


On a side note, Patty Gasso threw out the first pitch at the Dodgers game on Wednesday, rumors were she had spent some time earlier that day on the campus at USC. Perhaps the draw of coming home to Southern California and starting a softball program at the University of Southern California building it from the ground up and in her own vision is intriguing.

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[schwabach]

What are the numbers if you factor out inebriated students.

 

[Northball]

What are the numbers if you factor out inebriated students.

Depends if it's an 11 am or a 7 pm kickoff. Big 10 schools are annoyed by how many 11 am kickoffs they have on their tv contracts. Many empty seats while the students are still sleeping off the previous night.

 

[Gtrips07]

I have been to Mary Nutter and Judi Garmin tournaments, I have been to college games at UCLA, Loyola Marymount, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St and Regionals at UCLA.
I've been to sec baseball games at LSU, Miss St, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Arkansas.
I watched my kid play at Texas A&M and Oklahoma in their stadiums this year. But no, I have never gone to a softball game at an sec stadium.
Based on the baseball games at sec stadiums I am still going to go with my original thesis that the majority of people there in the stands are there because they are students or fans of the athletic program at those universities and that same support would not follow a pro league.

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To Quote you:

"Many universities have +20,000 students, that's a captive audience for the universities athletic programs."

The majority of fans are SEC games are not just students as you claimed above. Way to move the goalposts.



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[Schmick's Gloves]

To Quote you:

"Many universities have +20,000 students, that's a captive audience for the universities athletic programs."

The majority of fans are SEC games are not just students as you claimed above. Way to move the goalposts.



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Go ahead and quote where I said that every fan at a college game was a student at that college. Go ahead
I'll wait.



Don't fail at comprehension and then accuse someone of moving the goalposts.
I stated that college softball benefits from college sports fans, including the students there on campus, and that pro softball can't count on people watching, attending or advertising with them just because they watch, attend and sponsor college games.


In the 90s they had this woman's world cup in the US where the US women won and one of them ran around in her bra. There were big TV numbers and tens of thousands of people in the stands. Some people got over their skis and started a pro womens soccer league thinking that American sports fans would watch pro womens soccer. It was a miserable failure and gone in a year or so. The WCWS hasn't come close to getting the same numbers as that 90s world cup

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[clarity]

In 2019 Ohio State averaged 102,000 people at their home football games but the Cincinnati Bengals averaged 47,000 fans a game. Where did those other 55,000 people go?

I have been to a great number of Ohio State football games. Never once was I required to attend a Cincinnati Bengals the following day.

 

[Schmick's Gloves]

I have been to a great number of Ohio State football games. Never once was I required to attend a Cincinnati Bengals the following day.

Simply pointing out the fact that college fans won't necessarily show up to support a pro league at close to the same rate that they show up to support the college games.

And what sort of attendance numbers to the college softball programs average?

In 2019 UCLA were National Champions and averaged just 1,050 fans per home game.
OK, lots of things to do in LA, what about elsewhere.... Ohio St averaged just 840 fans per game in 2019. Based on the college to pro football numbers what would that mean to a pro softball team's attendance in Ohio of 390 fans per game?
Not to be accused of cherry picking, the highest average attendance in 2019 (pre plannedemic) was Alabama with 2,750 fans per game.

How long does a pro league last when they can get maybe 1000 fans to show up per game? How much will ticket prices have to be for those 1000 fans to be able to afford the salaries of 25 players, 10-12 coaches and training staff, another 10-15 people in management and office staff and at least 20 people to work the stadium that those 1000 people might, or might not, show up at?


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[schwabach]

More to the point is whether or not a pro softball league can get some T.V. contracts. That's where the live or die money is. It needn't be big money, but it would need to cover a living wage for players and team expenses.

Live attendance can be developed with local outreach by the teams.