I think I asked this before but I remember there wasn't a clear answer. Some said it is interference by a retired runner, Batter Runner is also out, but some say the runner does not have to get out of the way, the fielder has to adjust her throw, therefore it is a live ball. I asked our rules interpreter about this play, he says where is the runner to go, she can't disappear, but I feel that it is interference, what say you?
Is this interference?
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I think I asked this before but I remember there wasn't a clear answer. Some said it is interference by a retired runner, Batter Runner is also out, but some say the runner does not have to get out of the way, the fielder has to adjust her throw, therefore it is a live ball. I asked our rules interpreter about this play, he says where is the runner to go, she can't disappear, but I feel that it is interference, what say you?
If I were the umpire, I wouldn't have called it. Is the retired runner in the way of the throw? Yes. However, #1 it doesn't look intentional and #2, as your rules interpreter pointed out, she can't just disappear. Not to derail the thread but what if she had tried to slide into 2nd and took the feet out from under the 2nd baseperson and the throw went errant? Would you have called that interference? Does it make a difference if it's intentional or not?
No where in the rule that I am aware does it say give the runner time to get out of the way. Beside She had plenty of time to turn Away. However it wasn’t a cut and dried out at first either. I don’t know that the double play should be assumed.
Interference doesn’t require intent, so that’s a non issue.
I have an out a second and runner safe at first.
Interference doesn’t require intent, so that’s a non issue.
I have an out a second and runner safe at first.
I absolutely would have given both outs. This is one I would consider putting in the learning videos of when to call the second out.
Obvious interference by the runner - easy interference call - only decision is whether to call the second out.
It is a judgement call whether there was a chance (doesn't need to be an easy play, just a chance) of a double play (yes it looks there was a good chance) or if the action was intended to break up a double play (not in this case), to call the second out.
BTW - if you don't call the second out, it is still interference, and you would place the runner at first.
Took me a couple of looks to see that the throw actually hit the retired runners helmet. That was 2 or 3 steps after she had already slowed down and not changed directions.
Some additonal notes:
Obvious interference by the runner - easy interference call - only decision is whether to call the second out.
It is a judgement call whether there was a chance (doesn't need to be an easy play, just a chance) of a double play (yes it looks there was a good chance) or if the action was intended to break up a double play (not in this case), to call the second out.
BTW - if you don't call the second out, it is still interference, and you would place the runner at first.
Took me a couple of looks to see that the throw actually hit the retired runners helmet. That was 2 or 3 steps after she had already slowed down and not changed directions.
Some additonal notes:
- Was this recorded in the 80's with a 100lb shoulder VCR camera? That is some poor quality.
- The runner gives up 3 steps before the base and goes straight towards the bag standing up. So to whoever said "Where does the runner go" - she either continues to bag in an attempt to be safe (i.e. slides) OR she can easily peel away towards the infield. The thing she can't do - she did.
- And yes, the runner has an obligation to not interfere when they have that chance. Intent is not necessary.
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Is intent not a factor?
No. Just calling interference doesn't require intent.
Interestingly enough also - 'double play can't be assumed' is for scoring purposes, not for umpires judgement where VERY occasionally you asked to judge on whether a double play was possible (like on these calls).
That's insane! Why bother teaching your middle infielders to run through 2B or step back from 2B to turn the double play? The 2nd baseman still has her foot on the bag when she makes the throw to 1B.
Also, why are there so many cameras on this random game from the 90s?? lol
- Oct 24, 2010
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One code wants the retired runner to do something to demonstrate she is NOT interfering:
Call it the winds of change, turning this play completely on its head.
Does the retired runner make a legitimate attempt not to interfere with the throw (e.g., slides if they're close enough to the bag, veers to get out of the throwing lane or drops/ducks to avoid the thrown ball)?
Call it the winds of change, turning this play completely on its head.
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NCAA 12.17.3 Interference by a Retired Runner, Offensive Team Personnel or Loose Offensive Equipment
12.17.3.1 An offensive player, who no longer has status (a retired runner or a runner who has scored), may not interfere with a defensive player making a play on an active runner.
USA RULE 8 - BATTER-RUNNER AND RUNNER
SECTION 7 - THE RUNNER IS OUT
P. When, after being declared out or after scoring, an offensive player interferes with a defensive player’s opportunity to make a play on another runner. A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference. This does not apply to a batter-runner who is entitled to run on the dropped third strike rule.
USSSA RULE 8. BASE RUNNING
Sec 18. Any runner is out when the runner:
H. Is prevented from being put out by an illegal act by anyone connected with the team.
NOTE 2: If a retired runner interferes and, in the judgment of the Umpire, another runner could have been put out, the Umpire shall declare the runner closest to home out.
NFHS:8.6.16.c After being declared out or after scoring, a runner interferes with a defensive player’s opportunity to make a play on another runner. A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference. This does not apply to a batter-runner who is entitled to run on the dropped third strike rule.
All major codes, an additional runner is out. No intent required, no protection given because she "has to be somewhere'. The runner always has the opportunity to legally slide in a direct line between the bases on a force when she WOULD be protected.
However, it is not the Batter-runner, but the runner closest to home, (which may be the BR but not necessarily) who is declared out
12.17.3.1 An offensive player, who no longer has status (a retired runner or a runner who has scored), may not interfere with a defensive player making a play on an active runner.
USA RULE 8 - BATTER-RUNNER AND RUNNER
SECTION 7 - THE RUNNER IS OUT
P. When, after being declared out or after scoring, an offensive player interferes with a defensive player’s opportunity to make a play on another runner. A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference. This does not apply to a batter-runner who is entitled to run on the dropped third strike rule.
USSSA RULE 8. BASE RUNNING
Sec 18. Any runner is out when the runner:
H. Is prevented from being put out by an illegal act by anyone connected with the team.
NOTE 2: If a retired runner interferes and, in the judgment of the Umpire, another runner could have been put out, the Umpire shall declare the runner closest to home out.
NFHS:8.6.16.c After being declared out or after scoring, a runner interferes with a defensive player’s opportunity to make a play on another runner. A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference. This does not apply to a batter-runner who is entitled to run on the dropped third strike rule.
All major codes, an additional runner is out. No intent required, no protection given because she "has to be somewhere'. The runner always has the opportunity to legally slide in a direct line between the bases on a force when she WOULD be protected.
However, it is not the Batter-runner, but the runner closest to home, (which may be the BR but not necessarily) who is declared out
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Because old school baseball had players intentionally sliding into your legs to 'take you out to break up the double play'
That has long since been removed from the game.
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