Question for Scorekeepers: Winning Pitcher for games < 5 innings

SoAZDad · Mar 22, 2016

I searched the site and the web but couldn't quickly find an answer, so I thought I'd ask the DFP scorekeepers. A few similar situations from last weekend's tournament. The fourth game is slightly different. Thanks in advance for your input.

USSSA Qualifier, 14U Open. 1 hour, 15 minutes no new inning for pool games, 1 hour and 20 minutes for bracket games.

Pool Game 1, 3 complete innings. Starting pitcher for visitors pitches 2 complete innings, relief pitcher for visitors pitches 1 complete inning (the third). Score after the first is 2-0, visitors. Score after the second is 11-0 visitors. Score after the third is 14-0 visitors. Game called at 1 hour and 9 minutes. Is there a winning pitcher?

Pool Game 2, 2 complete innings. Starting pitcher for visitors pitches 1 complete inning, relief pitcher for visitors pitches 1 complete inning. Score after the first is 9-0, visitors. Score after the second is 15-0 visitors. Game called at 1 hour and 1 minute. Is there a winning pitcher?

Bracket Game 1, 2 complete innings. Starting pitcher for home team pitches 1 complete inning, relief pitcher for home team pitches 1 complete inning. Score after the first is 6-0, home. Score after the second is 15-0 home team. Game called at 1 hour and 7 minutes. Is there a winning pitcher?

Bracket Game 2, 3.5 innings. Starting pitcher for home team pitches 2.2 innings, relief pitcher for home team pitches 1.1 inning. Score after the first is 4-1, home. Score after the second is 4-2, home team. Starter was pulled with 2 outs in the top of 3, with runners on first (BB) and second (HBP). Score after the third inning is 5-3, home team. Visitors were scoreless in the top of 4 and the game was called at 1 hour and 21 minutes. Final score was 5-3 home team. Is there a winning pitcher?

djcarter1966 · Mar 22, 2016

Given the craziness of timed games I would probably revert back to this rule: " the winning pitcher is defined as the pitcher who last pitched prior to the half-inning when the winning team took the lead for the last time."

There is always a winning and losing pitcher although sometimes it is not who you think it should be...I could be completely wrong and it is frustrating but without playing game to there actual completion you just have to roll with it.

OlatheDad · Mar 22, 2016

SoAZDad said:
I searched the site and the web but couldn't quickly find an answer, so I thought I'd ask the DFP scorekeepers. A few similar situations from last weekend's tournament. The fourth game is slightly different. Thanks in advance for your input.

USSSA Qualifier, 14U Open. 1 hour, 15 minutes no new inning for pool games, 1 hour and 20 minutes for bracket games.

Pool Game 1, 3 complete innings. Starting pitcher for visitors pitches 2 complete innings, relief pitcher for visitors pitches 1 complete inning (the third). Score after the first is 2-0, visitors. Score after the second is 11-0 visitors. Score after the third is 14-0 visitors. Game called at 1 hour and 9 minutes. [/I]Is there a winning pitcher? Winning Pitcher is Pitcher #1
Pool Game 2, 2 complete innings. Starting pitcher for visitors pitches 1 complete inning, relief pitcher for visitors pitches 1 complete inning. Score after the first is 9-0, visitors. Score after the second is 15-0 visitors. Game called at 1 hour and 1 minute. Is there a winning pitcher?[/I] Winning Pitcher is Pitcher #1

Bracket Game 1, 2 complete innings. Starting pitcher for home team pitches 1 complete inning, relief pitcher for home team pitches 1 complete inning. Score after the first is 6-0, home. Score after the second is 15-0 home team. Game called at 1 hour and 7 minutes. Is there a winning pitcher?[/I]Winning Pitcher is Pitcher #1

Bracket Game 2, 3.5 innings. Starting pitcher for home team pitches 2.2 innings, relief pitcher for home team pitches 1.1 inning. Score after the first is 4-1, home. Score after the second is 4-2, home team. Starter was pulled with 2 outs in the top of 3, with runners on first (BB) and second (HBP). Score after the third inning is 5-3, home team. Visitors were scoreless in the top of 4 and the game was called at 1 hour and 21 minutes. Final score was 5-3 home team. Is there a winning pitcher?[/I]Winning pitcher is Pitcher #1 and Pitcher #2 gets a save.

This based on standard scoring definitions. First three games the pitcher was relieved with the lead and the team never lost it so she gets the win. Game #4 the pitcher left with a two run lead and the relieving pitcher did not lost the game so she gets a save for coming in and holding the game with less than a 4 run lead.

SoAZDad · Mar 22, 2016

Thanks both of you, I'm aware of those rules. But my dilemma is what rule in timed play supercedes (if any) the minimum 5 inning regulation game (high school & college but this obviously isn't and I don't have USSSA scorekeepers rules for timed games). djcarter alluded to this craziness as he put it. I question because I've seen a handful of 5-inning NCAA mercy games with NO WINNING PITCHER according to the scorekeeps. Just trying to do it right by this particular USSSA sanction rules.

Thanks much again, dj and Olathe

SoCal_Dad · Mar 22, 2016

SoAZDad said:
Thanks both of you, I'm aware of those rules. But my dilemma is what rule in timed play supercedes (if any) the minimum 5 inning regulation game (high school & college but this obviously isn't and I don't have USSSA scorekeepers rules for timed games). djcarter alluded to this craziness as he put it. I question because I've seen a handful of 5-inning NCAA mercy games with NO WINNING PITCHER according to the scorekeeps. Just trying to do it right by this particular USSSA sanction rules.

USSSA 2015 rule book doesn't cover score keeping. ASA, NCAA and NFCA's ATEC don't cover games ending before the 5th inning. NFHS (2011) only requires the starter pitch at least half the innings.

a. The starting pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:
1. When she pitches at least half of the innings in the game and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game.
2. When she pitches the required number of innings, her team is ahead or tied when she is replaced, she re-enters the game with her team behind, and her team subsequently recaptures the lead.

NCAA scoring rules indicate a winning pitcher is always determined, so I'm curious about the games where one was not credited.

14.30.6 Winning Pitcher.
14.30.6.1 The winning pitcher is the pitcher on the lineup card at the moment her team takes the lead and keeps it. (See Rule 14.30.3.)
14.30.6.2 The starting pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:
14.30.6.2.1 She has pitched at least four total innings (cumulative, not necessarily consecutive) of a game of six or more innings, her team is ahead when she is replaced, and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game.
14.30.6.2.2 She has pitched a total of three innings (cumulative, not necessarily consecutive) when a regulation game is called after five innings, her team is ahead when she is replaced, and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game.
14.30.6.2.3 She has pitched the required (as noted above) number of innings, her team is ahead or tied when she is replaced, she re-enters the game with her team behind, and her team subsequently recaptures the lead.

Note: A pitcher cannot receive credit for a save if she receives the win.

14.30.6.3 The relief pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:
14.30.6.3.1 The starting pitcher did not pitch the required number of innings, or her team fell behind.
14.30.6.3.2 The relief pitcher who pitches most effectively after the starting pitcher did not pitch the required number of innings, more than one relief pitcher was used and the lead was never lost.
14.30.6.3.3 The relief pitcher was the pitcher of record when her team gained the lead and stayed in the lead.
14.30.6.3.4 A relief pitcher left the pitching position while the score was tied or her team was behind, and she re-entered as the pitcher and regained the lead.

JAD · Mar 22, 2016

djcarter1966 said:
Given the craziness of timed games I would probably revert back to this rule: " the winning pitcher is defined as the pitcher who last pitched prior to the half-inning when the winning team took the lead for the last time."

There is always a winning and losing pitcher although sometimes it is not who you think it should be...I could be completely wrong and it is frustrating but without playing game to there actual completion you just have to roll with it.

This^^^^, but the easy answer is to score the game with iScore or Game Changer and let it decide....

djcarter1966 · Mar 23, 2016

SoCal_Dad said:
USSSA 2015 rule book doesn't cover score keeping. ASA, NCAA and NFCA's ATEC don't cover games ending before the 5th inning. NFHS (2011) only requires the starter pitch at least half the innings.

a. The starting pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:
1. When she pitches at least half of the innings in the game and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game.
2. When she pitches the required number of innings, her team is ahead or tied when she is replaced, she re-enters the game with her team behind, and her team subsequently recaptures the lead.

NCAA scoring rules indicate a winning pitcher is always determined, so I'm curious about the games where one was not credited.

14.30.6 Winning Pitcher.
14.30.6.1 The winning pitcher is the pitcher on the lineup card at the moment her team takes the lead and keeps it. (See Rule 14.30.3.)
14.30.6.2 The starting pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:
14.30.6.2.1 She has pitched at least four total innings (cumulative, not necessarily consecutive) of a game of six or more innings, her team is ahead when she is replaced, and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game.
14.30.6.2.2 She has pitched a total of three innings (cumulative, not necessarily consecutive) when a regulation game is called after five innings, her team is ahead when she is replaced, and her team stays ahead for the remainder of the game.
14.30.6.2.3 She has pitched the required (as noted above) number of innings, her team is ahead or tied when she is replaced, she re-enters the game with her team behind, and her team subsequently recaptures the lead.

Note: A pitcher cannot receive credit for a save if she receives the win.

14.30.6.3 The relief pitcher is credited with a win in the following circumstances:
14.30.6.3.1 The starting pitcher did not pitch the required number of innings, or her team fell behind.
14.30.6.3.2 The relief pitcher who pitches most effectively after the starting pitcher did not pitch the required number of innings, more than one relief pitcher was used and the lead was never lost.
14.30.6.3.3 The relief pitcher was the pitcher of record when her team gained the lead and stayed in the lead.
14.30.6.3.4 A relief pitcher left the pitching position while the score was tied or her team was behind, and she re-entered as the pitcher and regained the lead.

This is kind of what I was getting at with craziness, given the NCAA rules a starting pitcher could pitch three innings be up 9-0 get relieved and even if a couple relievers give up three or four runs one would get the W as the most effective reliever since the starter does not qualify for a W, even though she pitched the most innings and gave up the least runs and left with the lead.

Given these rules it does seem as I thought there is always a winning pitcher...there just has to be

MNDad · Mar 23, 2016

JAD said:
This^^^^, but the easy answer is to score the game with iScore or Game Changer and let it decide....

I'm pretty sure you have to manually enter the winning pitcher with iScore. I don't remember with GameChanger.

JAD · Mar 23, 2016

MNDad said:
I'm pretty sure you have to manually enter the winning pitcher with iScore. I don't remember with GameChanger.

I am not going to claim to be an iScore or GameChanger guru, but when I have used them in the past I just scored the game, hit "game over" and they did the rest.

OlatheDad · Mar 23, 2016

You have to manually select the winning and losing pitchers in IScore and Gamechanger.

Question for Scorekeepers: Winning Pitcher for games < 5 innings

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

SoAZDad

djcarter1966

OlatheDad

SoAZDad

SoCal_Dad

JAD

djcarter1966

MNDad

JAD

OlatheDad

Similar threads

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Share this page

Online statistics

Forum statistics