Coach chooses to bat 9

[radness]

Coaching styles can be very different. My DGD’s team has kids playing multiple positions during the course of a single game except for the P & C. It is normal for my DGD to play three different positions in a game. Awfully tough on the adults but the kids have bought in.

The batting order and who is in it varies game to game. They will either bat 9 or 10 on Sunday.

Listing for kids and their positions:

• SS 2B LF RF
• 3B SS LF CF RF
• P SS LF RF
• CF 1B RF
• C RF CF
• 3B LF RF
• RF CF LF
• P 1B RF LF
• IB LF RF
• C LF RF
• 2B LF RF

Ohhh in the same game...
YUCKY.

2 is good

 

[radness]

the point in this was he could have chosen to bat 10, but chose to bat nine. It wasn’t a rules thing, it was a choice. And with that voice, he took away a girls chance to play at this kind of tourney to give his team a perceived better chance to win. You may think that makes him a fierce competitor; I think it shows he cares more about his personal record than he does about the players that make up his roster.

Is the coach making the decision for the team...or why would you say for himself?

 

[mmeece]

the point in this was he could have chosen to bat 10, but chose to bat nine. It wasn’t a rules thing, it was a choice. And with that voice, he took away a girls chance to play at this kind of tourney to give his team a perceived better chance to win. You may think that makes him a fierce competitor; I think it shows he cares more about his personal record than he does about the players that make up his roster.

One of the most important discussions a coach can have at the beginning of a season is the one in which they set expectations for playing time. We make it clear that in pool games we will typically bat everyone and make sure everyone plays in the field at least half of the time or more depending on the rule set. The best way to get more bracket game playing time is to play more bracket games, which means you need to do all you can to win. There are very few coaches who are making decisions in order to pad their own record, because there just isn't any real advantage to do that while making parents angry. Ultimately, everyone has to decide if they want to coach/play on a team where everyone plays equally and just has fun, or on a team that plays to win in bracket play.

 

[Eric F]

the point in this was he could have chosen to bat 10, but chose to bat nine. It wasn’t a rules thing, it was a choice. And with that voice, he took away a girls chance to play at this kind of tourney to give his team a perceived better chance to win. You may think that makes him a fierce competitor; I think it shows he cares more about his personal record than he does about the players that make up his roster.

Why is giving the team the best chance to win only about the coach's personal record? In my experience, players - even at 12U - tend to be pretty interested in winning, especially in high-level tournaments. Just because a player didn't start in the batting order or in the field doesn't mean they aren't contributing to the game. CRs for P and C can be critical to the success of a team. DP/Flex, plus 2 CRs, means 12 players are involved. Depending on your pitching situation, there might be another 1-2 players involved, as well. Win one game, and maybe a few of those roles flip around for the next game, if you have players that are close enough in skill level. Resource management is an important factor, too.

 

[Momo'sDad]

the point in this was he could have chosen to bat 10, but chose to bat nine. It wasn’t a rules thing, it was a choice. And with that voice, he took away a girls chance to play at this kind of tourney to give his team a perceived better chance to win. You may think that makes him a fierce competitor; I think it shows he cares more about his personal record than he does about the players that make up his roster.

I sense you have an axe to grind. It's entirely possible that you may be familiar with some rec coaches who know their W-L records, but I'd bet any amount of money that you do not know any high-level TB coaches - 12U-and-up - who have any idea what their records are. They may be able to tell you how many of their former players are playing in college, and they'll remember the time they went undefeated in the Power pool at Sparkler or when they won PGF, but their records? Nah. That's not a thing.

Regardless of your feelings and opinions - both of which are valid for you and to which you are fully entitled - every softball team is bigger than a single player. A tournament coach has to make decisions for the benefit of the team, not for an individual player, unless it's a showcase when the rules are different.

My opinion? I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You see only an opportunity being "taken away" as opposed to a non-lineup player being motivated to work on her craft and to develop her skills so that she can make herself a must-have in the lineup. Assigning victimhood to her does her a great disservice. It's my belief that we should not do that. YMMV

 

[ang2bmd]

Perfectly acceptable in my book to bat 9 in bracket at big tournaments. Its travel softball. Its supposed to be competitive. If you want equality then rec league is a better place in my opinion. We have used dp/flex in bracket since my dd was 10....it is what it is. Compete!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[whiporee]

I think my point is being misconstrued. If the rules say bat 9, you bat your best nine or you bat your defense.. No problem with that. My problem comes when the coach has the choice to bat 10 (or 11) and instead chooses to bat 9. That's telling the other players on the team they simply aren't good enough to be even given the chance to try. it's telling them he EXPECTS them to make an out. It's telling them he lacks the confidence in them to be able to contribute. You want a rift on a. team? start making the choice to show the lesser players on the team how much lesser you think they are.

Again, it' not saying they should go in in place of starters. Just that when given the choice, they should't be bypassed.

While I think it's crappy (and mean) coaching, it's also stupid strategically because he's assuming that his best 9 defenders are also his best nibble hitters, and they are so far ahead of the rest of the team he's willing to give up a potential offensive slot. If that's the case -- that his top nine defensive players are also his top nine offensive player and the tenth offensive player isn't worth considering, then he's done a very bad job of constructing his team.

I'm not saying that everyone should start, and I'm not saying to sacrifice the team. But I am saying that if you have the chance to give a girl who is a part of your team a spot in the order, and instead you decide not too replace her with another player but just ignore the opportunity, that's crappy coaching and a crappy way to treat 12-year-old girls.

And for the record, I'm not butthurt about this. My DD is the #1 pitcher and #1 hitter on a mediocre 16B team. She's the coach's favorite and I'm one of the coach's best pals; my DD has lots of problems as a player, but playing time ain't one of them. But I've seen the faces of the girls on other teams -- with coaches who you can tell are defining themselves by these wins and losses -- when they just get ignored. Telling them to just get better doesn't solve that pain, and in this situation, I think it's a pain that a decent and caring coach ought to avoid inflicting. I've read a lot of people saying that they should learn that some people are just better than they are, but there's also something to be said about work during the week -- even if they never get to be one of the nine best players -- being rewarded and appreciated.

 

[_MIA_]

I've read a lot of people saying that they should learn that some people are just better than they are, but there's also something to be said about work during the week -- even if they never get to be one of the nine best players -- being rewarded and appreciated.

I agree and the reward is that they can see their performance improving in pool play (which they should be playing in) which should motivate them to work even harder so they can get into the lineup for bracket play...I also think that a good coach should recognize the hard work and improved play and acknowledge it.

Edit: This is a situation where it helps for a parent to know what they are looking at and be objective. If a kid has obviously passed another player who does get into the lineup regularly during bracket, and if that kid is not given an opportunity to play bracket, then a parent needs to have a conversation with the coach. If the coach is blinded for whatever reason then it might be time to look for another team. Actually this might be true (time to find another team) even if the kid hasn't passed anybody, despite working their butt off, but does want to get bracket time.

 

[radness]

I think my point is being misconstrued. If the rules say bat 9, you bat your best nine or you bat your defense.. No problem with that. My problem comes when the coach has the choice to bat 10 (or 11) and instead chooses to bat 9. That's telling the other players on the team they simply aren't good enough to be even given the chance to try. it's telling them he EXPECTS them to make an out. It's telling them he lacks the confidence in them to be able to contribute. You want a rift on a. team? start making the choice to show the lesser players on the team how much lesser you think they are.

Again, it' not saying they should go in in place of starters. Just that when given the choice, they should't be bypassed.

While I think it's crappy (and mean) coaching, it's also stupid strategically because he's assuming that his best 9 defenders are also his best nibble hitters, and they are so far ahead of the rest of the team he's willing to give up a potential offensive slot. If that's the case -- that his top nine defensive players are also his top nine offensive player and the tenth offensive player isn't worth considering, then he's done a very bad job of constructing his team.

I'm not saying that everyone should start, and I'm not saying to sacrifice the team. But I am saying that if you have the chance to give a girl who is a part of your team a spot in the order, and instead you decide not too replace her with another player but just ignore the opportunity, that's crappy coaching and a crappy way to treat 12-year-old girls.

And for the record, I'm not butthurt about this. My DD is the #1 pitcher and #1 hitter on a mediocre 16B team. She's the coach's favorite and I'm one of the coach's best pals; my DD has lots of problems as a player, but playing time ain't one of them. But I've seen the faces of the girls on other teams -- with coaches who you can tell are defining themselves by these wins and losses -- when they just get ignored. Telling them to just get better doesn't solve that pain, and in this situation, I think it's a pain that a decent and caring coach ought to avoid inflicting. I've read a lot of people saying that they should learn that some people are just better than they are, but there's also something to be said about work during the week -- even if they never get to be one of the nine best players -- being rewarded and appreciated.

So this says ok batting starting 9, but then not ok when can bat more but dont? Because someones getting left out?

Top 9 is top 9.
Perhaps if bottom 10,11 batting average was higher?

This scenario of bat as many as you are allowed to not leave players out of the game, could easily apply to rotate all defensive players every inning. "Lets all shuffle",
no thankyou.

Perhaps theres confusion on the rules you can hit x-# of hitters doesnt mean you have to.

Strategy to be competitive includes strategy.

As far as the comment its crappy to not....
How about is it crappy to play a player just because?
What about the players who work really hard to earn spots.and then giving a spot to someone who doesn't work hard. Could be crappy.

Thankfully there are many different types of travel ball teams and different levels of competition for people to play. Choose accordingly!
If you feel like every batter needs to hit all the time. Or if you want a starting spot and other's players are better might need to work harder or make a decision on teams.
The right choice/fit is out there!

 

[hb_hound]

Here's a tip...
If you want a spot in the starting 9, and you're not getting it, get better. Do the work to improve until you can't be ignored. Be so good you're undeniable.

Or have Daddy coach the team